Was wrestling training redundant in Ancient Greece?

[Bianca]

I just got a bug for Greek-Roman ancient movies. Anyway, a number of movies, Alexander being one of them. They show young boys wrestling. Wrestling seemed to be a part of military ancient world.
However in reality there is no real combat application to war tackticks. Most soldiers weilded a sword, some carried spears and sheild.
By no means I am putting down wrestling. What I am wondering is why did they teach it.
It's almost like teaching wristlocks to modern soldiers who 99% of the time, will never see an armed enemy within a grappling or stricking distance.

[jubaji]

I just got a bug for Greek-Roman ancient movies. Anyway, a number of movies, Alexander being one of them. They show young boys wrestling. Wrestling seemed to be a part of military ancient world.
However in reality there is no real combat application to war tackticks. Most soldiers weilded a sword, some carried spears and sheild.
By no means I am putting down wrestling. What I am wondering is why did they teach it.
It's almost like teaching wristlocks to modern soldiers who 99% of the time, will never see an armed enemy within a grappling or stricking distance.

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[Bjjexpertise@be]

Have you ever wrestled? It's one of the most physically demanding sports there is.

[eXcessiveForce]

it was also very probable you could be disarmed in armed combat at that time.

A shield with a spear through it is useless, a sword could be lost,

And as has been stated, the strength and conditioning of it would be valuable.

It was also a major athletic event of the time. So something they would be likely capable of training in and have interest in.


why do firefighters have boxing.
Cops play basketball.
Military play raquetball along with lots of other things

[aseepish]

It was taught for the same reason they were taught poetry and philosophy. Builds character.

"In ancient Athens, the purpose of education was to produce citizens trained in the arts, to prepare citizens for both peace and war.

Other than requiring two years of military training that began at age 18, the state left parents to educate their sons as they saw fit.

The schools were private, but the tuition was low enough so that even the poorest citizens could afford to send their children for at least a few years...

Boys attended elementary school from the time they were about age 6 or 7 until they were 13 or 14. Part of their training was gymnastics.

The younger boys learned to move gracefully, do calisthenics, and play ball and other games. The older boys learned running, jumping, boxing, wrestling, and discus and javelin throwing. The boys also learned to play the lyre and sing, to count, and to read and write. But it was literature that was at the heart of their schooling.

The national epic poems of the Greeks - Homer's Odyssey and Iliad - were a vital part of the life of the Athenian people. As soon as their pupils could write, the teachers dictated passages from Homer for them to take down, memorize, and later act out. Teachers and pupils also discussed the feats of the Greek heroes described by Homer.

The education of mind, body, and aesthetic sense was, according to Plato, so that the boys "may learn to be more gentle, and harmonious, and rhythmical, and so more fitted for speech and action; for the life of man in every part has need of harmony and rhythm."

From age 6 to 14, they went to a neighborhood primary school or to a private school. Books were very expensive and rare, so subjects were read out-loud, and the boys had to memorize everything. To help them learn, they used writing tablets and rulers.

At 13 or 14, the formal education of the poorer boys probably ended and was followed by apprenticeship at a trade. The wealthier boys continued their education under the tutelage of philosopher-teachers.

Until about 390 BC there were no permanent schools and no formal courses for such higher education. Socrates, for example, wandered around Athens, stopping here or there to hold discussions with the people about all sorts of things pertaining to the conduct of man's life.

But gradually, as groups of students attached themselves to one teacher or another, permanent schools were established. It was in such schools that Plato, Isocrates, and Aristotle taught.

The boys who attended these schools fell into more or less two groups.

Those who wanted learning for its own sake studied with philosophers like Plato who taught such subjects as geometry, astronomy, harmonics (the mathematical theory of music), and arithmetic.

Those who wanted training for public life studied with philosophers like Isocrates who taught primarily oratory and rhetoric. In democratic Athens such training was appropriate and necessary because power rested with the men who had the ability to persuade their fellow senators to act."

From http://www.crystalinks.com/greekeducation.html

[OmaPlata]

I just got a bug for Greek-Roman ancient movies. Anyway, a number of movies, Alexander being one of them. They show young boys wrestling. Wrestling seemed to be a part of military ancient world.
However in reality there is no real combat application to war tackticks. Most soldiers weilded a sword, some carried spears and sheild.
By no means I am putting down wrestling. What I am wondering is why did they teach it.
It's almost like teaching wristlocks to modern soldiers who 99% of the time, will never see an armed enemy within a grappling or stricking distance.

They did to train for the gladiator fights. Get this, Boarspear would have love to live back then, the Greeks wrestled, sometimes faught to the death, completely naked and THEIR BODIES COVERED IN OLIVE OIL ! NASTY

[Sagacious Lu]

It was taught for the same reason they were taught poetry and philosophy. Builds character.

"In ancient Athens, the purpose of education was to produce citizens trained in the arts, to prepare citizens for both peace and war.

Other than requiring two years of military training that began at age 18, the state left parents to educate their sons as they saw fit.

The schools were private, but the tuition was low enough so that even the poorest citizens could afford to send their children for at least a few years...

Boys attended elementary school from the time they were about age 6 or 7 until they were 13 or 14. Part of their training was gymnastics.

The younger boys learned to move gracefully, do calisthenics, and play ball and other games. The older boys learned running, jumping, boxing, wrestling, and discus and javelin throwing. The boys also learned to play the lyre and sing, to count, and to read and write. But it was literature that was at the heart of their schooling.

The national epic poems of the Greeks - Homer's Odyssey and Iliad - were a vital part of the life of the Athenian people. As soon as their pupils could write, the teachers dictated passages from Homer for them to take down, memorize, and later act out. Teachers and pupils also discussed the feats of the Greek heroes described by Homer.

The education of mind, body, and aesthetic sense was, according to Plato, so that the boys "may learn to be more gentle, and harmonious, and rhythmical, and so more fitted for speech and action; for the life of man in every part has need of harmony and rhythm."

From age 6 to 14, they went to a neighborhood primary school or to a private school. Books were very expensive and rare, so subjects were read out-loud, and the boys had to memorize everything. To help them learn, they used writing tablets and rulers.

At 13 or 14, the formal education of the poorer boys probably ended and was followed by apprenticeship at a trade. The wealthier boys continued their education under the tutelage of philosopher-teachers.

Until about 390 BC there were no permanent schools and no formal courses for such higher education. Socrates, for example, wandered around Athens, stopping here or there to hold discussions with the people about all sorts of things pertaining to the conduct of man's life.

But gradually, as groups of students attached themselves to one teacher or another, permanent schools were established. It was in such schools that Plato, Isocrates, and Aristotle taught.

The boys who attended these schools fell into more or less two groups.

Those who wanted learning for its own sake studied with philosophers like Plato who taught such subjects as geometry, astronomy, harmonics (the mathematical theory of music), and arithmetic.

Those who wanted training for public life studied with philosophers like Isocrates who taught primarily oratory and rhetoric. In democratic Athens such training was appropriate and necessary because power rested with the men who had the ability to persuade their fellow senators to act."

From http://www.crystalinks.com/greekeducation.html

Great post!

[danfaggella]

As someone stated, wrestling was very prevolent and was part of the school cericulum (sp?...), and it was part of military training.

Wrestling then wasn't like you see now, it was more brutal. Yet, it was still very physically demanding and forced a deticated practicioner to learn grace and economy of movement, as well as solid grappling (fighting) skills without anyone getting seriously hurt, like boxers might, or they might be hurt if they tried to "spar" with swords. They dealt with the problem of martial arts in a relatively safe, sportive way, which may have even set the tone for Kano's method of training in Judo.

[Bjjexpertise@be]

danfagella is write in that wrestling back then was much more brutal. The only rule was no eye gouging. Hence the phrase "it's all fun and game until someone loses an eye." I believe I read somewhere that even groin grabbing was allowed .

They did to train for the gladiator fights. Get this, Boarspear would have love to live back then, the Greeks wrestled, sometimes faught to the death, completely naked and THEIR BODIES COVERED IN OLIVE OIL ! NASTY
Today 05:01 AM

After the matches they also scraped the oil off the triumphant gladiator and sell it as a perfume. Crazy stuff.

[B.Y.O.B.]

Well my teacher told me they studied hand-to-hand combat was because their weapons would break and they will have to fight by hand.

[jubaji]

brilliant!

Well my teacher told me they studied hand-to-hand combat was because their weapons would break and they will have to fight by hand.

LOL

You needed a teacher to tell you that?

[B.Y.O.B.]

And I dont think gladitors were train in hand-to-hand combat like the soldiers were, cause they were slaves that fought to the death for their freedom.

[B.Y.O.B.]

LOL

You needed a teacher to tell you that?

Well I asked him, cause I read it in some site and was making sure it was true and it was part of the lesson plan.

[OmaPlata]

Another thing about the gladiators, thumbs up meant the guy dies, thumbs down means put the sword back in the sheath, the guy lives.....boy did hollywood **** that one up

[danfaggella]

Jeez, damn you hollywood.