What MA would help you here?

[Tant01]

Well, he said...

Well he said professional kickboxer and bjj blackbelt. He never included weapons training in the scenario but yes weapons training would have been much better.

And I don't see why some don't think BJJ is fit for self defense. ......

He included a knife and a gun in the hands of his "attackers"....


I don't care if your belt is black or red and white. My point was he waited TOO LONG to act.

Here's another point. BUY A KNIFE!! You don't need to be a blade master to make a guy bleed. THE WIFE could do it easy enough if her knife was SHARP! No training other than carving a ham or holiday turkeys...

Helio Gracie is a crazy old fool for selling his poop as SD.

But DON'T take MY word for it!!!


"If someone points a gun at you, of course, you will be scared. But jiu-jutsu gives me the equivalent of a bullet proof shield. It protects me from head to toe, plus it gives me the ability to take a gun away."


Helio Gracie. via Doug Jeffrey. (From the April '05 issue of GRAPPLING magazine) .........................


Reality cannot be ignored except at a price; and the longer the ignorance is persisted in, the higher and more terrible becomes the price that must be paid.
-Aldous Huxley

[SamuraiGuy]

Who's gonna kill Helio gracie? hes like 93 and lives out in a nice little home in the country side of brazil.

as far as jiu jitsu goes, it wouldnt do much in this situation, but in a one on one situation I think it would be more effective against a gun than most other martial arts, excluding Gun Fu, Cuban Judo, and maybe something like a krav maga, or other Reality based self defense, because they have things for unarms. Once again this is all if your in close enough, and I know if I was ever gonna shoot/mug someone I'd be like ten feet away.

Dont get me wrong, his bullet proof shield thing is ridiculous, but I still think BJJ something that lets you control your opponent , would be better than most other arts.

With that said, all you guys and your knives, isnt carrying those things around illegal? I live in Ontario Canada and I'm pretty sure you cant go walking around with a bunch of knives tucked into your pockets. Also, how would you deploy that fast enough to kill them, I mean walking around with a fixed blade seems kinda stupid to me... most likely stab your leg if you shoved that in your pocket, or on your belt, or w/e. And if you put it in like a little case, the problem of deploying it once again comes up. Oh and I know its illegal to have a automated deployment or some shit like that (switch blade basically). Maybe I should be like a ninja and attach a sword to my back, no ones gonna start shit with you if youve got a sword.

[Tant01]

Weapon laws are intended to protect innocent people... To keep "dangerous" objects out of the WRONG hands. ANYTHING you use with INTENT to cause bodily injury is a WEAPON. You think the BAD GUYS GIVE A CRAP ABOUT the LAW? No.

This forum is intended to EDUCATE folks about martial arts esp. BJJ, JKD and others. The best thing about EDUCATION is that you might learn the limitations of empty hand techniques. Or NOT!

"The essence of self-defense is the ability to defend oneself against an attacker using any and all necessary violence of action to end the threat against ones' life. Any weapon is just a tool that we use in defending ourselves. Whether one uses their own body, a knife or a gun to defend themselves, the principle remains the same: that to survive an attack on your life, one must realistically train and be honest with oneself about their self-defense skills."

Michael Van Blaricum

[blitz]

Helio Gracie is a crazy old fool for selling his poop as SD.

But DON'T take MY word for it!!!


"If someone points a gun at you, of course, you will be scared. But jiu-jutsu gives me the equivalent of a bullet proof shield. It protects me from head to toe, plus it gives me the ability to take a gun away."


Helio Gracie. via Doug Jeffrey. (From the April '05 issue of GRAPPLING magazine) .........................

I think he was just using it as a figure of speech that jiu jitsu is a great art for self defense. But in reality all the arts of the world including military training are a "bullet proof shield".. I think BJJ is great, and I'll be honest if there was no BJJ sport I'd train in something else, but I love it for its sport and I think it can be used in self defense. And man you praise Judo I don't see how you can say BJJ is poop. No I'm not bashing Judo but they are very similar even though one emphasizes takedowns and the other focuses more on groundwork. But I think its the same principle even though many would probably disagree. BJJ and Judo Complete each other imho.

[B.Y.O.B.]

The guy infront of me has a gun so I'll knock him out as fast as I can.

I'm not sure what to do with the guy holding my wife, cause he can be the guy with the knife so I'm not sure. You didnt really give to much detail on the 3rd guy or told us who is holding the wife. The guy with the knife or the 3rd guy who I think is unarmed.

[Tant01]

Not really...

I think he was just using it as a figure of speech that jiu jitsu is a great art for self defense. But in reality all the arts of the world including military training are a "bullet proof shield".. I think BJJ is great, and I'll be honest if there was no BJJ sport I'd train in something else, but I love it for its sport and I think it can be used in self defense. And man you praise Judo I don't see how you can say BJJ is poop. No I'm not bashing Judo but they are very similar even though one emphasizes takedowns and the other focuses more on groundwork. But I think its the same principle even though many would probably disagree. BJJ and Judo Complete each other imho.

I love BJJ... Don't get me wrong. We're of the same breed but selling it as street SD is misleading and too many players get caught up in the hype!

They have a goshin jutsu (self defense) application to be sure but bring a weapon into the game and it's fairly obvious where it falls short. A guy can break the arm and take a weapon in no time if he practices that way. Awareness is important and technique to deanimate or destroy the weapon arm is GREAT! But what if your attacker switches the weapon to his other hand while you're trying to break his arm? I just want players to THINK before they try something that gets them cut or shot in a real SD situation, you know. Art is all good and big fun too, we learn a lot by PLAYING with others in the sport and competition, confidence is good, OVERCONFIDENCE will be fatal if you ever get caught in the worse case scenario.

[blitz]

I love BJJ... Don't get me wrong. We're of the same breed but selling it as street SD is misleading and too many players get caught up in the hype!

They have a goshin jutsu (self defense) application to be sure but bring a weapon into the game and it's fairly obvious where it falls short. A guy can break the arm and take a weapon in no time if he practices that way. Awareness is important and technique to deanimate or destroy the weapon arm is GREAT! But what if your attacker switches the weapon to his other hand while you're trying to break his arm? I just want players to THINK before they try something that gets them cut or shot in a real SD situation, you know. Art is all good and big fun too, we learn a lot by PLAYING with others in the sport and competition, confidence is good, OVERCONFIDENCE will be fatal if you ever get caught in the worse case scenario.

I guess we are on the same side then And we've covered the overconfidence thing in another thread.

[danfaggella]

I understand where you are coming from Tant, but if I was a family man I would certainly have many resposbilities. Carrying a weapon would not be on the top of my list. I would rather: keep my family out of sketchy areas, stop riding my motorcycle, not go out and drink every night, provide for my family's needs, ect... I suppose its just a different perspective. To you, carrying a weapon around is normal, and even necissary, to me it is a bit frivilous and violent.

Its likely this is due to where we come from, for instance, I come from a quaint little part of Rhode Island where the threat of a violent attack is almost impossible. You may come from a place where you or your freinds were attacked, and maybe your father instilled in you that carrying a weapon in your responsibility to ward off people trying to harm your family.

[Tant01]

As the 19th-century jurist James Paterson remarked in his Commentaries on the Liberty of the Subject and the Laws of England Relating to the Security of the Person:

"In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms - and these the best and the sharpest - for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur."

[danfaggella]

Alrighty, I don't want to dig around for quotes against carrying weapons everywhere, but that one didn't even tell me I should do so, simply that to bear arms is an irrepressible law that people will always push to do.

I suppose if you for some reason need to bring your family regularly through a rough area, the idea of having a knife is fine. However, if I'm bringing the kids to the YMCA I'm not going to have a pistol on my hip. I think avoidance is the best option when dealing with conflict, this is cemented into the martial way, however, if a responsible person feels that they do need that protection and that thier loved ones may in fact be in danger in certain areas, then thats fine by me. I just dont like people feeling like the world wants to kill thier children and that they will slit anyones throat who comes within 5 feet of them, you obviously dont seem to be this person.

Again, I think conflict AVOIDENCE is pretty important in self-defence, and it is engrained into most martial diciplines. Of course violent happens, but I personally dont feel like im in enough eminent danger to feel that i need to go to the shooting range or take up silat.

[Tant01]

Hey Dan, I appreciate the discussion but I'm going in the direction of politics. You can avoid violence all your life by hiding in your little corner of the world or you can pull your head out of the "martial" clouds and get some base in REALITY. Are you ever going to take your wife and kids to Disney Land (World)? How about camping? Fishing?

If you go out in the world and socalize with large numbers of people even on rare occasions you can be a victim.

If you go to a secluded place to be alone with nature you can be a victim. You can be a victim in your own home but you don't want weapons there to protect your family because they might be hazardous to your family? So you only want weapons in the hands of "responsible" people? You vote to ban weapons like switchblades and brass knuckles because criminals use them... ?

I say it is the obligation of every responsible citizen (ESPECIALLY so called "martial" artists!!) to be armed and ready to protect the innocent from violent criminals. Nothing disgusts me more than a pacificist that stands to witness a crime in progress but would do nothing to help a victim in need unless they thought to use a cell phone to call police.

Horay, be a hero by pushing a button on your telecom. Phui. Jump in there and slam his ass on the deck and stomp his head (to hold him there) until police get there.
The difference between a subject and a citizen of a government is his right to bear arms...

Where do you think it can't happen? It can happen anywhere so I say better to be PREPARED for your worse case scenario and have a weapon than to find yourself suddenly and unexpectedly hip deep in the doody without one...

If the scenario here is more than you can imagine start slower...


"A guy walks up to bum a light for his cigarette... A guy walks up to ask for spare change... A guy walks up to ask directions to a hotel... They were just "interviewing" you to see if you were a potential "GOOD" victim and guess what? YOU ARE!


Here's another, You stop at a rest area alongside a busy highway. It's well lit and only one or two other vehicles are parked but you see no one in the mens room... That's because they're in the woman's restroom doing it with your wife because you never bought her a knife or her life ain't worth the 4 or 5 hundred bucks to put a small handgun in her purse... It's TOO DANGEROUS...

I say the heck with that! Be prepared, eh? Cub Scout motto, remember? Or are you a martial artist for the trophy shelf and a $2.00 black belt?

[EmptyneSs]

Off-Topic but is your instructor Dave Camarillo?

yes, David is our instructor.

[EmptyneSs]

Off-Topic but is your instructor Dave Camarillo?

yes, David is our instructor.

[danfaggella]

Yowzah, if I had a wife I would be pretty offended, seriously.

Also, I'm not some pacifist dweeb who wear tie die and thinks we should melt all our guns to make a peace sign statue. However, I don't beleive that if a citizen is not carrying a WEAPON on him, he is not responsible. This is simply a point of view. Also, if someone chooses not to walk into K-Mart with thier tanto, it does not mean they are some push-over panzie who would watch thier wives be raped. I've never considered my father an irrisponsible man, and he has never carried a weapon on him. Hes never dragged me through sketchy places and has always kept his eye out for me. I wouldnt call him a bad citizen or a bad father because he never braught a gun everywhere, it seems like doing so is just expecting and perpecuating violence. And again, its not like if some random guy grabbed my my dad wouldn't rip his head off in a second.

[CSHEWBJJ]

You can not anticipate how anyone would act in this situation and what style of martial arts would be most affective. I believe if you have a person that studies martial arts and is good at his art he will act instinctively to the situation based on his training.