What MA would help you here?

[JuijitsuMan]

Picture this:

You are walking with your wife in the street and 3 men approach. The first yells out "Hey Buddy" and comes towards you. He is armed with a gun but its hidden in his jacket and you don't know it.

His friends comes up beside him and your wife, -- the man is armed with a knife.
The man with the hidden gun whose 6'4" and 200 criminal says to your wife come with me to my car I want to talk to you in a aggresive voice.

Your wife says "help me!" and you the BJJ Blackbelt, and Professional Kickboxer feel tough and yearn to protect your wife who stands only 5'1" and 130 lbs. So you go after the guy with her.

You are ready to attack him but he says I have a gun, don't fu*k with me. He grabs your wife in a bear hug and starts to take her to the car. He's not interested in fighting you but kidnapping and later raping your wife and perhaps later Killing her.


What would you do in this position. Remember the knife wielding attacks simply looks on at his friend to watch for oncoming police.

his scenario scares the hell out of me. I may feel comfortable defending myself, and somewhat capable of SURVIVING an armed attack. But When my wife is the target and she is threatened to be shot by the gunman all my MA skills are useless.

What would YOU DO?

[Penance]

As soon as I get that "spider sense" danger feeling and I realize that something bad is going down, I reach in my pocket and hold down my cell phone's emergency 911 auto-dial key.

Ideally, I try to make my wife back up so I can get between her and the two guys before they can grab her.

If I can't do that and the gun-guy grabs her, I keep distance between knife guy and gun-guy, while talking as much as possible to delay things. Until gun-guy actually pulls out the gun I don't care. If he keeps busy bear hugging my girl, all the better.

I try to notice as much about both of them and their car as possible. License plate, car model, color, clothes, height, distiguishing chracteristics, etc.

I try to reason with them. Why are you doing this? Can I just give you some money to go away? etc. If that doesn't work, try the angry stuff to intimidate them and keep them occupied on me...as long as knife guy doesn't attack me and gun-guy doesn't pull out the gun.

If things are getting really desperate I bust knife-guy's nose or kick him in the nuts and charge gun-guy. Anything to get gun-guy to let my wife go so she can run. After that I'm fine....if I get shot, oh well.

If worse comes to worst, I let him take her in the car and call 911 again with all the details and let the cops catch them and pray to god they don't wreck or god knows what else.

In short, BJJ is useless here...multiple opponents with weapons...that's BJJ's weakest scenario. I can't really think of any martial arts where that's considered a "good scenario" ya know? I guess something pre-emptive like Krav Magra might be good, but really if it all happens too fast, using your head is the best option.

[blitz]

I'd fight..

But as in who would I fight first, that would be answered if I knew more about this.
Where did this happen?(Alley, Street, house) etc.....
What were the distances between the attackers?
Who is the closest to you and is he close to the guy holding your wife?

[JuijitsuMan]

Good responses

Penance,

Thank you especially for your response. I can tell it was deeply though out.

I myself am considering Krav Maga. I used to take BJJ but really wonder how applicable it is to the streets.


Bjj = 1 on 1. Soft mats (Shall I introduce your guard to the cement?) , No weapons.. All the weaknesses of real life survival.

[danfaggella]

BJJ is more aplicable in the ring or on the mat, but there are obviously plenty of BJJ concepts and techniques can work fine for self-defence.

As far a this kind of real word, modern self-defence scinario, Krav is probably the best choice you have going for you.

I enjoy martial arts for numerous reasons and consider self-defence to be a good benefit of it, but I live in a decent place, and I rarely go out to boisterous clubs or bars, plus I don't have a wife or children to protect.

I wouldn't obsess over scinarios that could happen tomoro, or in two years, or in a decade, or whatever. Tomoro you could theoretically be hit by a bus or a meteor, or be diagnosed with cancer.

The best advise is to stay away from sleezy areas, thats better than any black belt as far as conflict avoidance.

[jeff5]

Picture this:
Your wife says "help me!" and you the BJJ Blackbelt, and Professional Kickboxer feel tough and yearn to protect your wife who stands only 5'1" and 130 lbs.

I'd say she's kind of fat, and probably take that opportunity to ditch her and get a new one!

[jkelbaugh]

seriously get a gun ,in this situation i would kill anyone who was trying to harm my loved ones i can handle the thought of me dyeing but not them. i know thats not the answer you were looking for but if you weigh your options in this scenario youd be screwed no martial can effectively take on numerous antagonists i just cant buy that I also agree w/ danfaggella you cant obsess over something thats out of your control what i would do is take the proper chanels get a concealed carry permit and fight fire with fire seriously a red dot is a great equalizer 6'4 or not you paint him with that he may just think better of it if not put two in his heart and one in his head

[danfaggella]

Eh, I would just stay away from sleezy areas. Though such crimes can happen anywhere, 90% are in steriotype places like bars and clubs and allys. Like I said, the odds of this happening aren't high and there is no good reason to deticate yourself to a martial art when staying awya form these areas is the best option by far. Carrying a gun into such places might make you anxious to kill someone, I mean, you have a GUN on you. There is a WAY higher risk of your wife/loved one being killed in a car, doesn't mean you should deticate yourself to car safetly.

[Tant01]

Make them BLEED...

Picture this:

You are walking with your wife in the street and 3 men approach. The first yells out "Hey Buddy" .....


What would YOU DO?

The scenario played out TOO FAR before you ask the right question...


If I were approached by three men the one that comes within arms reach first gets cut. If his buddy wants to bleed then cut him next...

Don't wait for him to get his fuc*ing hands on you. This error will cost you the life of your wife and then you get to live with yourself thinking I should have cut him...

Armed or not the disparity of numbers is reason to fear for your life. Kill or die? YOU CHOOSE!

Next you're going to tell me you're unarmed? Unprepared for the rare event that you describe? WHY? Because you just now thought to ask yourself "What would I do if...?" Welcome to the real world buddy!

Arm yourself, train to use it, get your mind SET on doing it and then it will never happen to you...

They will bleed, you will go home and sleep with your wife...


It's all about this damn victim mindset.. They're bigger, they're armed, they're working together... So WHAT!!! Kill one the rest will run...Or not.

[danfaggella]

Eh, I dunno if I want the "good guys" of the world to think its thier responsiblility to train themselves to use weapons and cary weapons on them. Who are the good guys anyways, the line is always so blurry, its pretty absurd to think that you will soon need to save your wife, so you gotta train in the martial arts or with a weapon, its also absurd to go everywhere with a pistol or a big knife just in case some "bad guys" come around.

[Tant01]

Tell me about it?

Eh, I dunno if I want the "good guys" of the world to think its thier responsiblility to train themselves to use weapons and cary weapons on them. Who are the good guys anyways, the line is always so blurry, its pretty absurd to think that you will soon need to save your wife, so you gotta train in the martial arts or with a weapon, its also absurd to go everywhere with a pistol or a big knife just in case some "bad guys" come around.

That's too bad. I think you need to adjust your thinking. What seems "absurd" to you is NORMAL to me. You may not need a gun or a big knife but you need something, I use a karambit these days but a small straight blade works just fine too.

The good guys are ready, willing and able to kill the bad guys, bad guys are usually armed, good victims are unarmed.

The difference between good and bad is intent.

If you don't think it's wise to be armed then don't be armed... I think it is the ultimate equalizer UNLIKE MOST SO CALLED "MARTIAL" ARTS... Any empty hand style will leave you at the mercy of the armed and dangerous. But don't take MY word on it.

Take your time and think on it for a while... run through the scenario empty handed then try it again with your TANTO. It never needs to come out until it's time to make a mess but you want to make a big mess when it's time.

[blitz]

Well he said professional kickboxer and bjj blackbelt. He never included weapons training in the scenario but yes weapons training would have been much better.

And I don't see why some don't think BJJ is fit for self defense. I think it would do just fine, you don't have to do a flying armbar, you can always use takedowns and takedowns on concrete hurt. You don't always need to use a submission. I agree though vs multiple attackers it isn't the best choice, but you can still use its takedowns.

[EmptyneSs]

ma isnt always going to help you. sometimes you are just going to be fucked, and there are infinite variables in such a situation that you cant predict. doing a martial art or carrying a weapon doesnt mean you will always be able to use it. using your head and avoiding places that can potentially put you in these situations is your best bet. for example, you may not want to take your hot wife or gf to a bar or some place were there is bound to be trouble. i know a kid from highschool who got stabbed to death by vietnamese gang members in a similar situation as the one you described. sadly, he was a really small guy and knew he had no chance but there was nothing he could do he had to fight to protect these two girls and he got killed.

as for bjj, yeah i think it is good for self defense. however i do not think its good to use bjj as offense in a self defense situation. i wouldnt use bjj as offense in sd, like going for takedowns and arm locks. you really have to commit to use bjj as offense. however, i would use bjj should i find myself being pinned or mounted. or maby i you deck some dude just to be tackled by his buddy. now you are on the floor. should you survive a tackle on concrete, mabye you can use bjj to get back to your feet real quick, or possibly finish the guy who has just taken you down. for sd situations i dont think you would want to actively choose to commit that much to one opponent, he may have weapons or needles, who the **** knows. inmop staying on your feet, staying moble, and staying alert is your best option. using bjj is to really defend yourself when you find yourself in a shitty position( mounts,pins,headlocks) or if someone is trying to physically overpower you. using it for offense is for 1 on 1 competitions in the ring. this is the misconseption many people have about bjj inmop.

btw, my bjj instructor once told us that one of the most important "self defense" techniques in bjj is posting with one hand and getting to your feet real fast.

[blitz]

ma isnt always going to help you. sometimes you are just going to be fucked, and there are infinite variables in such a situation that you cant predict. doing a martial art or carrying a weapon doesnt mean you will always be able to use it. using your head and avoiding places that can potentially put you in these situations is your best bet. for example, you may not want to take your hot wife or gf to a bar or some place were there is bound to be trouble. i know a kid from highschool who got stabbed to death by vietnamese gang members in a similar situation as the one you described. sadly, he was a really small guy and knew he had no chance but there was nothing he could do he had to fight to protect these two girls and he got killed.

as for bjj, yeah i think it is good for self defense. however i do not think its good to use bjj as offense in a self defense situation. i wouldnt use bjj as offense in sd, like going for takedowns and arm locks. you really have to commit to use bjj as offense. however, i would use bjj should i find myself being pinned or mounted. or maby i you deck some dude just to be tackled by his buddy. now you are on the floor. should you survive a tackle on concrete, mabye you can use bjj to get back to your feet real quick, or possibly finish the guy who has just taken you down. for sd situations i dont think you would want to actively choose to commit that much to one opponent, he may have weapons or needles, who the **** knows. inmop staying on your feet, staying moble, and staying alert is your best option. using bjj is to really defend yourself when you find yourself in a shitty position( mounts,pins,headlocks) or if someone is trying to physically overpower you. using it for offense is for 1 on 1 competitions in the ring. this is the misconseption many people have about bjj inmop.

btw, my bjj instructor once told us that one of the most important "self defense" techniques in bjj is posting with one hand and getting to your feet real fast.

Off-Topic but is your instructor Dave Camarillo?

[jkelbaugh]

[QUOTE=Tant01]
Armed or not the disparity of numbers is reason to fear for your life. Kill or die? YOU CHOOSE!

Next you're going to tell me you're unarmed? Unprepared for the rare event that you describe? WHY? Because you just now thought to ask yourself "What would I do if...?" Welcome to the real world buddy!

Arm yourself, train to use it, get your mind SET on doing it and then it will never happen to you...

They will bleed, you will go home and sleep with your wife...


great post