Hapkido vs BJJ

[jubaji]

Deja poo

Most tournaments do not allow spine strikes, too dangerous; however, this, along w/other similar techniques are used to disable someone trying to perform a take-down; .

Here we go again............................

[sapatiero]

I study Hapkido and am only a white belt, but from
what I've seen of my instructors they would never fall for a lunge attack.

Whenever a white belt starts in a club, they always look up to their instructor, and rightly so. But try not to be blinded by this. Despite some ramblings on this forum about BJJ's roots, it was developed on & for the street, and has been proven. There are a number of ways to get into the clinch position favoured in BJJ, and the lunge attack is one of them.

But the true point of this is I'm wondering if Jujutsu, rather GJJ, would be effective not only against Hapkido, but also TKD and Judo.

I did jujutsu for 6 years, and switched to BJJ when I realised that BJJ is devastatingly practical in comparison. As to whether jujutsu is practical against those arts (judo stems from JJJ), it very much depends on the ability of the practicioner. In JJJ the standard of a black belt varies massively, as they may be a dan grade because they have good kata/weapons work or just because they've been training for a few years. A BJJ black belt is a different thing altogether.

I've never had anyone sit on my chest, not since gradeschool fisticuffs, and no I don't think I'd react kindly to it, but it doesn't seem as "street" effective to me.

It's been proven to work. Think about it - how are you going to use your striking when you're flat on your back? And, even if you do know an escape, the bjj black belt is going to know the counter to that, and the counter to the counter etc. Streetfights do often end up on the ground.

My school is based around the principles of street fighting, there are no forms to follow, no katas, only physical muscle memory or strikes, throws, and other moves. Some acrobatic, some as simple as breaking a wrist or a set of fingers.

Sounds good, but don't assume that all of this is actually practical. I love wrist locks, but you seldom see them used in the UFC. Why? Because they only work in the controlled environment of a dojo or within constrained rules, they don't work when your opponent can do 'anything'.

...But don't take my word for it - do a little research & have a peek at videos of early UFC, or the Gracies In Action stuff. The most practical combination of arts IMO is a grappling art with submissions like BJJ/wrestling/sombo combined with a full contact striking with both punches & kicks art like muai tuai (sorry about the spelling).

Either way, good luck with the training.

[MHack]

Hey, a couple of quick wing chun moves usually ends things quickly on the street; if it doesn't, then fine, do a take down; but if I'm dealing with more than one person, I'll use my standing up skills to deal with it.

[Clooneytkd]

chances are that if you were dealing with more than one person on the street you would get your ass spanked. seeing as how attackers arnt always amazingly pathetic and fall over from a half assed kick to the stomach, also they dont let you punch them in the face. they wouldnt attack you if they wernt that good at attacking. run, and fast would be the best idea. life isnt a movie lets be realistic.

[MHack]

chances are that if you were dealing with more than one person on the street you would get your ass spanked. seeing as how attackers arnt always amazingly pathetic and fall over from a half assed kick to the stomach, also they dont let you punch them in the face. they wouldnt attack you if they wernt that good at attacking. run, and fast would be the best idea. life isnt a movie lets be realistic.

It always cracks me up to read stuff like this; yet another one who has No Genuine Clue. Dude, I study bjj, Muay Thai, etc..., it's ALL GREAT, but I wouldn't try to compare the hand techniques to that of wing chun. You have no idea how many people come to the school only to learn the hard way; yes, even jj guys! C U, I'm off to China for 2 1/2 wks! Oh, you might want to check out Chi-Na and Bagua (sp?)... c u

[jubaji]

It always cracks me up to read stuff like this; yet another one who has No Genuine Clue. Dude, I study bjj, Muay Thai, etc..., it's ALL GREAT, but I wouldn't try to compare the hand techniques to that of wing chun. You have no idea how many people come to the school only to learn the hard way; yes, even jj guys! C U, I'm off to China for 2 1/2 wks! Oh, you might want to check out Chi-Na and Bagua (sp?)... c u

...........................................

[KiotoQuinn]

Wow, I love BJJ.

[jubaji]

Wow, I love BJJ.

Well......ok.

[OmaPlata]

Hapkito lol, wheres the video of the hapkito instrutor getting spaked by rorion gracie., that pretty much sums it up. oh, and how many hapkito fighters have been Ufc/Pride/KOTC champs? lmao, um, let me go out on a limb and say...ahhh.....zero ! yes zero ! wow, what a style !!

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

Well, thats because Hapkito practicioners dont play sports like MMA, or a abide by any rules. MMA is a sport and a watered down combat system. If try using that sport shit on the street youll get killed. j/k

[OmaPlata]

Well, thats because Hapkito practicioners dont play sports like MMA, or a abide by any rules. MMA is a sport and a watered down combat system. If try using that sport shit on the street youll get killed. j/k

Yep nothing works in street fights but Hapkito. Hey, I have some beach front property in Vegas I can sell to you for a great deal, and a bridge in brooklyn too, hit me up genius !
Oh heres some of your masters of hapkito getting there ass's handed to them by a Gracie. The hapkito tard goes for the balls at one point LOL, great training LMAO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcdrNgVL02s

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

Hapkito.......Lmao.

[WildWest.]

This clip didn't do Hapkido any good. The instructor shown was hopeless in a sparring situation....I mean, who leads with a side kick?!?!? Anybody who does that is asking for a beating. Did you notice his stance? He looked like he was about to run away. Turning your back like that slows down any strike you may wish to throw, any defense to a takedown, very bad balance on his behalf.....it was painful to watch him perform, but good to watch a master BJJ practitioner in action.

To those who critisize Hapkido by a short video clip though, I suggest you open your mind a little and learn a bit about the style before you rubbish it. Indeed in this case the instructor was terrible so don't think I am defending him, but Hapkido is not to fault here. I would say his training has let him down as well as the traditional beliefs that a lot of styles, like Hapkido, still hold on to. These beliefs are things like "I don't need to learn ground fighting because I will never let the fight take me down there" or "I would have knocked him out by then" etc. Hapkido (depending on the club) isn't the only style to be found guilty of this type of thinking. Schools in Karate, Kung Fu, TKD, Judo, JJJ (I am not critisizing these styles) etc etc all have clubs that are filling their students heads with bullshit and under training them for a street confrontation. It is not the students fault. They have been "suckered" into believing that they are learning a good self defense style and believe they are becoming good fighters as they train. The instructor will tell them all sorts of bollocks to keep them training with them too....and who wouldn't??? It's money in the bank.

I do Hapkido along with MT. Our Hapkido is a good style with lots of practical strikes, locking techniques, throws, grappling, breakfalls, escapes, attacks etc. Much like other styles closely related to it such as Aiki-jutsu (it's "parent" style), Japanese Jujitsu and some Kung Fu styles. Hapkido is taught to the South Korean Special Forces and has gifted out techniques to other Special Forces units and Law Enforcement Agencies around the world. Just as BJJ, and many other styles, have also done. Hapkido is not primarily a striking style although Rorion said it was, it is a self defense style that incorporates more locking and throwing techniques than strikes. Hapkido does not have a sport side to it. This is why I also do MT. Personally, I think not having a sport side, or at least training in a manner that promotes "alive" type sparring is a disadvantage. I aim to change that. It also utilises lots of reactionary takedown techniques where your opponent ends up on the ground. Again this is another weakness because you are taught to pin them into submission assuming they don't take you down with them and doesn't promote enough "preemptive striking/grappling/takedowns". Therefore you must learn ground fighting techniques. Also, who seriously wants to wait to be hit before reacting?? It's too late, you are hit. I also aim to change that.

Sure you are always going to get morons coming out of the closet to say that a real Hapkido practitioner would have "eye gouged" Rorion Gracie, or "broken his neck" if he wanted to.....I think Rorion could have done that as well. This wasn't a fight between styles, there really is no such thing, but rather a fight between one badly trained fighter and one awesome one. Every art has good and bad techniques in it depending on how the techniques suit the individual. But they don't matter unless you train to actually use the techniques in a proper, contact, sparring/grappling session. How you train is so important.
I know you BJJ guys will think I'm full of shit, and all power to you, but the BJJ black belt at my MT club was telling me that back in Brazil, his instructor encouraged him and his other students to crosstrain in Hapkido. Evidently there was a line of thinking and training in Hapkido that BJJ didn't have and that learning Hapkido to complement their BJJ was well worth it.

Hapkido is a good, practical, lethal if you want it to be, painful style. Unfortunately a lot of clubs haven't changed their outdated training techniques in decades and the style suffers in the eyes of the general public because they think it's crap. I believe it's techniques must be taught in a controlled environment to begin with and then used in random attack scenarios as well as contact MMA type sparring and conditioning in order to get the student comfortable with a resisting opponent, fighting on the ground, getting hit and fighting under pressure. There needs to be more "real" training.

Lastly, I am a fan of BJJ and MMA. I truly believe that in the last 15 years or so there has been a massive leap forward in the way to train in the MA's and for self defense. Unfortunately many people still wish to live in the past and do the same ol' boring crap that won't help you if you ever need it. As well as stick to silly outdated notions and opinions about ground fighting and fighting in general.

Sorry if I rambled on.

[Tom Yum]

Hapkido does have a sport side to it, but its extremely limited to open style full-contact tournaments (strikes, sweeps + takedowns; no grappling).

Is it better than BJJ in the grappling arena? No because BJJ is a highly specialized art whereas Hapkido is an art that utilizes different fighting ranges.

In other martial arts news, a hapkido master (Noni) is currently teaching Royce Gracie how to throw better strikes to damage while closing the distance. Hapkido is a style that does just that.

The positive aspects of hapkido:

Great kicking accuracy & speed.
Vital point striking - hard surface, soft target.
Excellent restraining techniques.
Excellent escape techniques.
Break Fall training.
Great emphasis on martial spirit/self disicpline.
Weapons training - type depends on whether its traditional or modern combat.

It works in real life (see cop vs. pimp video).

Areas to consider developing:

Grappling - traditional hapkido uses the same finishing holds as traditional jujitsu, but lacks the mobility and position emphasis as wrestling/bjj.

Competitive aspects? Its hard to compete in this style and therefore hard to refine a hapkidoists core skill set.

[WildWest.]

I agree with what you've said about Hapkido Tom Yum and glad you recognise the limitations it has with regards to ground fighting. It will never develop like BJJ has in that area, but there does need to be a bit more emphasis on it I believe, without sacrificing it's core techniques.

I've heard of that sport side too but it's so watered down I pretty much ignored it. I definitely believe training in an MMA type way will help in putting you Hapkido techniques into effective use though. I have a few years to work out how to do it fortunately!!