Deaths in MMA

[SamuraiGuy]

Since you are semi-new here, Ill fill you in this one time:

Boar hates the Gracies, and theres nothing wrong with that, or rather, he thinks the success theyve had in MMA is exagerrated and blown way out of proportion to the quality of their fighting art.
Enter Royler vs. Sak., Royler had his hands full, as did Renzo, Royce did fine agaisnt him, the best of the 3 no doubt, but in Roylers case he was humilted and couldnt get Sak to the ground, so he sat o his ass and scooted around the ring hoping the Sak would come to the ground, but Sak just circles him kicking him in the legs. So because 1 time 1 Gracie sat on his ass like that, Boarspear claims that the Gracies teach us to fight that way and when take downs fail that we should resort to that. He is right though, that was pretty lame on Roylers part, totally embarrasing, it would have been better if he got KOd or caught in a Kimura like Renzo did.

Cmon your supposed to let them make stupid comments when they dont know what Boar is referring too... its funnier that way.

[Sagacious Lu]

I'd go with the wrestler because he knows how to punch but the boxer doesnt know how to wrestle. What is gonna happen when the boxer seems to be landing more shots on the wrestler. The wrestler is just gonna grab him and throw him on the ground which wouldnt be that hard.

I disagree, I wrestled for years and I don't see why you think wrestlers (necessarily, obviously this depends on the individual) know how to punch. They can stick there arm out and try and to hit you with it but that's about it. Every guy THINKS he knows how to throw a punch but unless a person practices punching on a regular basis their punches are going to be predictable and lame.

Personally, if a person out-weighs me the last thing I want to do is go to the ground. Having wrestled I know that it doesn't take much skill to exploit a thirty lbs.+ weight advantage on the ground. Because I spend a lot of time on my stand up I know I'm going to punch a lot harder and hit a lot more often than an untrained guy even if he outweighs me by quite a bit. IMHO it's a lot easier to overcome an opponent that has a size/brute stength advantage with skill standing up than it is on the ground.

[J-Luck]

Umm...

I think that does sound embarrassing... but that doesn't detract from bjj... not even a little... or something representing a lil lol. That's one case, and obviously training in one art is STUPID. Plain out. And for the dude said grappling is tough on a guy with alot of size one you... well... a little bit, i mean anything combat wise is tougher. But, striking against a bigger guy is much tougher than grappling. Grappling has less variables, and is more reliable. (not saying striking isn't reliable, but it's not as much as grappling) I wrestle with a friend(he wrestled for one year) and he is athletic and weighs 235. I weigh 160. I mean, obviously it's tough, and he can catch me with something, but I'd say(him being the unskilled grappler, while I would be the slightly less unskilled grappler lol) I can still control him. Size can hinder alot I think. Less explosiveness, practical power(strength and power are seperate). Size helps, but without skill I'd say it's not comparable.

[J-Luck]

A gat.... yes... I suppose you mean just a handgun.... I'm not down with that hip-hop, "with their hipping and a hopping and a bippin and a boppin" (bill cosby voice)

Because a gatling gun would be rather hard to carry around and conceal, I dont doubt its effectiveness though.

As for your firearm thing, I live in Canada, you cant just buy guns at walmart here, although I could get one, (from a store) its not worth it, its also a lot more illegal to just carry it around with you for no reason.

The knife you can conceal, buy anywhere, and its far less illegal, especially when I say "I work farming/landscaping" (and I do).

Plus I always thought using a gun was a pussy thing to do, anyone can shoot a gun, it takes guts to stab someone to death with a knife.

I'm not saying guns are worse, just worse for me.

Lol... I don't really no how to talk "hip hop" lol. I know how to talk in the streets... I mean that's where I'm at ya know? lol I always find it funny if I talk to someone and their like," YO YO..." or "OH SHIZZLE, YOU A HOMIE" ect. I mean... I know how to type and talk properly, and I do(obviously lol) but that's just becuase If I talk how I want to, you guys aren't going to know what I'm sayin, not take me seriously, or be uncomfortable. It's not hip hop though lol... hip hop comes from the streets, so I guess you might be down with hip hop, but not the hood.

[Sagacious Lu]

But, striking against a bigger guy is much tougher than grappling.

I firmly believe it's the other way around. You don't have to know much to sit on top of a much smaller man, but if you don't know how to punch you won't be able to bring your weight to bear because you'll just throwing arm punches. We can agree to disagree if you want, but I'd really like to understand what makes you say that.

[Tom Yum]

I agree with Lu on this one.

I'm a 176 lb er and have sparred, full contact with professional light weight and welterweight boxers with 12-20 fights. I can definitely out bench press these dudes and hit with decent power. I know the game decently, but these guys make me miss quite a bit and when they put all of their weight into a punch, its feels like their packin a brick. If they were to land the same punch without gloves, I'd probably get knocked back, down, be missing teeth or breathing through a broken, bloody nose.

[J-Luck]

Well... I already stated part of it, experience. Both on the streets, and on the mat. I think size is mostly and advantage. That being said, striking has more variables(chin, power, whether or not you slip, accuracy,ect. ect.) Also, leverage is leverage... sure a guy could... I think you said "sit on" me, but... I doubt I'm going to let him lol. The same guy could throw one hell of a punch, I mean, my friend with the 1 year wrestling experience(which I would equate to a high level bjj white belt to low level bjj blue belt) can't usually take me down, unless he can overpower me, which can happen but doesn't usually, and he's not the only one, I mean I can grapple with any unskilled dude and usually come out the victor.. and if he's close to my size... forget it lights out lol. And yes... that includes the ground too. On the other hand, a big dude can just swing with his body(and swinging with the arm actually isnt natural... its more natural to take wild haymakers which include too much body) and i can bob and weave, duck, counter all I want(I box) and hold my guard as strong as I want and if he even glances a shot once, it's got power in it. I mean... striking is an art, but it's got too many variables... and size is so important in it. (the bigger guy can take more shots usually too, due to muscle mass, neck size(the secret key to preventing a knockout), and bone structure.)

[J-Luck]

I agree with Lu on this one.

I'm a 176 lb er and have sparred, full contact with professional light weight and welterweight boxers with 12-20 fights. I can definitely out bench press these dudes and hit with decent power. I know the game decently, but these guys make me miss quite a bit and when they put all of their weight into a punch, its feels like their packin a brick. If they were to land the same punch without gloves, I'd probably get knocked back, down, be missing teeth or breathing through a broken, bloody nose.

Lol.. you're post is good, but has no relavance... no offense. You're talking PROS... and I'm sure you have decent skills... But pro's are there becuase they have great chins, great power, and excell at what they do. Most guys could train their whole life and not go pro lol. That's like saying I'm a good wrestler, but if i go to the ncaa champs and wrestle the guys in the 120's 130's they'll kill me... so grappling is better...

[J-Luck]

And again... I love boxing. I would hope I could fight a couple pro fights someday before I make it into the UFC (lol hey I got big dreams) but I'm thinking striking is slightly less ineffective to to all the variables. ONLY SLIGHTLY. I'm not saying... 1/10 striking sucks to grappling... I'm sayin it's just a little less reliable. Though these pure grappling vs. striking questions I hear are stupid, I think you should be well versed in both... or you are not well rounded.

[Tom Yum]

Lol.. you're post is good, but has no relavance... no offense....

No offense taken. Actually it is relevant.

You're talking PROS... and I'm sure you have decent skills... But pro's are there becuase they have great chins, great power, and excell at what they do. Most guys could train their whole life and not go pro lol. That's like saying I'm a good wrestler, but if i go to the ncaa champs and wrestle the guys in the 120's 130's they'll kill me... so grappling is better...

The real point is that technique and skill are more important than size, as demonstrated by the pros. Even a little technique contributes. The most important thing is to get in there with bad intentions and put technique to use.

I'd rather not grapple on the street if I don't have to.

On another note, good luck with your UFC goal. There are local MMA tournaments all around.

[SamuraiGuy]

I disagree, I wrestled for years and I don't see why you think wrestlers (necessarily, obviously this depends on the individual) know how to punch. They can stick there arm out and try and to hit you with it but that's about it. Every guy THINKS he knows how to throw a punch but unless a person practices punching on a regular basis their punches are going to be predictable and lame.

Personally, if a person out-weighs me the last thing I want to do is go to the ground. Having wrestled I know that it doesn't take much skill to exploit a thirty lbs.+ weight advantage on the ground. Because I spend a lot of time on my stand up I know I'm going to punch a lot harder and hit a lot more often than an untrained guy even if he outweighs me by quite a bit. IMHO it's a lot easier to overcome an opponent that has a size/brute stength advantage with skill standing up than it is on the ground.

Explain to me then how a OFSAA silver medalist in freestyle wrestling in the 93 Kg (about 205 pounds), when sparring MMA, had an advantage while we were striking, yet when we were clinched I could take it to him (I'm 5'10, about 165 BTW).

I have more striking experience than him, and he obviously has far more wrestling experience than me. OFSAA is Ontario's provincial championships for highschool, so its equivalent to a highschool state wrestler silver medal in the state championships.

I threw a leg kick, and he could take me down, I tried to outbox him, I got a face full of his fists.

My strategy became to close the distance, clinch and knee. At one point I sprawled and kneed him in the head like 12 times in a row until he fell over and we restarted from standing.

We spent about 3 minutes in the clinch and I landed a significant knee to the body and landed more shots both knees and punches.

How come I could do better against the bigger guy, in his world, as opposed to what I was better at, striking.

Now I'm no Floyd MayWeather but I feel my striking was technically better. It was his size advantage that gave him a bigger advantage in the striking range, and me the advantage in the clinch, even with his proven wrestling background and size advantage.

Coincedentally when I fought someone smaller than me, I prefered to strike rather then clinch (although I killed him in the clinch too, when we did, but I would always try to back out and leg kick) just cause I think the leg kicks are awesome and it leaves em hurting... Im a jackass by the way.

[J-Luck]

That's cool Tom, I guess it's a matter of opinion vs. opinion. Thanks man, I'm trying to do the Bjj thing now(this stuff is really cool) I have a background in wrestling, and boxing. I'm gonna wait about 5 years before I even start local competition. I want to have some solid experience behind me.

[J-Luck]

Samurai... maybe he just wasn't a takedown guy. Even great wrestlers are better on the ground sometimes.

[J-Luck]

And I'm also not sure of the skill of Canadian wrestlers... Ive never heard of them doing well in world competitions or in the olympics in any prominent numbers.

[Tom Yum]

And I'm also not sure of the skill of Canadian wrestlers... Ive never heard of them doing well in world competitions or in the olympics in any prominent numbers.

Check out Dave Benetau. He fought alot in the earlier UFC's with good success.