Guard is dead . .

[Shoot]

Niche said “God is dead.” Do any of you say, “guard is dead”? What I mean is that it’s not looking too good in MMA anymore. I’d like YOU’RE thoughts, yes YOU in particular. It seems like people, such as Tito Ortiz, bust through the guard with strikes like it’s hardly there. Submissions are down. Yes, I realize you have to know positions, reversals, and escapes, but do you think the guard has lost some effectiveness (if so, how)?

[SamuraiGuy]

Not at all, not at all, in high end grappling the match, generally speaking, is all about the gaurd game.

In mma, well if Tito Ortiz is smashing through peoples gaurds with ease... how can we combat that.... train the gaurd more maybe?...

I dont see how someone being able to get through your gaurd can be countered by just not training the gaurd at all.

The gaurd is nowhere near dead, and Tito doesnt smash his way through the gaurd, generally he smashes you from the gaurd, people look to pass, but its a rather hard thing to do, especially when someones clinging to you so they dont get their face elbowed or punched.

[aseepish]

Guard is dead? Somebody better tell that to Nogueira.

[danfaggella]

^Seriously.

Subgrappling, BJJ, MMA, the gaurd is a very very interesting and unique bit of ground positioning. What are people supposed to do now, just roll over on thier stomachs and run until they can turn around and fight again? Everyone gets taken down, and where you are there you want to get the best position you can, because the top man is fighting for the same thing. Us little guys end up there all the time and have to fend off blows and work armbars/armdrags/sweeps ect... Its much better for me than just letting the guy have side control.

[Shoot]

don't get me wrong

Don’t get me wrong here. I think BJJ is a MAJOR part of MMA. My whole MMA game is boxing + BJJ and a just a little wrestling and MT kick defenses. I don’t even kick. I don’t prefer the guard though if we’re talking MMA. If it’s pure grappling, then the guard is a dominant position. I totally agree that if you’re going down, then go for the guard and know it well.

BUT, it seems to me that lately in MMA people are getting pounded in the guard. Elbows are the norm. I personally don’t think the guard is dead. I think people are better at avoiding submissions and striking from the guard. That kind of striking has become an art unto itself. I also think that we don’t see quite as many BJJ/submission specialists fighting in MMA. I do think the guard has lost some effectiveness in the sense that people deal with it better–eg. Elbows and slamming.

[SamuraiGuy]

In pure grappling gaurd is not a dominant position as you stated.. its a neutral position.

[Shoot]

In pure grappling gaurd is not a dominant position as you stated.. its a neutral position.

I completely disagree. Half guard is neutral. Guard is dominant--the guy on the bottom has many submissions available. The guy on top has virtually no submissions available and has to try to escape in order to obtain a better position.

[lei_kung]

Well according to BJJ theory the guard is a neutral position. You can have your personal opinion and make arguments for it, but it is widely accepted (especially in BJJ) that the guard is a neutral position.

Lei Kung

[danfaggella]

^Yeah, most BJJ guys will tell you that.

I think that I know where your coming from, Shoot. However, even though the top man has nothing but falling for a leg lock, he is still the one on top, the one who can pass the gaurd. More guys pass the gaurd than are submitted or even swept from it.

Half-gaurd is pretty neutral as well, but the bottom man has less control. The top man gains many submissions and it is easier to pass than the gaurd (generally).

[Cheesalicious]

I'd imagine that the full mount is the most dominant position.

Also, the guy's name is Nietzsche.

[JkD187]

I completely disagree. Half guard is neutral. Guard is dominant--the guy on the bottom has many submissions available. The guy on top has virtually no submissions available and has to try to escape in order to obtain a better position.

What are you talking about? espically in comp the guard is nowhere near dominant...most of the time if you fall right to the guard you lose...because people just defend and control and you lose.Its happened so many times.

[jubaji]

Also, the guy's name is Nietzsche.

Hell of a grappler, that guy.

[danfaggella]

Mount is also not considered the most dominant position, back mount is.

[Motion]

Did anyone see Mario Sperry's guard tape?

He basiclly feels that you shouldn't try to do too much from the guard. You should either have your opponent in the closed guard just to rest or have him pushed away out of your guard. He feels you can get hurt trying to fight from the guard.

[Shoot]

Did anyone see Mario Sperry's guard tape?

He basiclly feels that you shouldn't try to do too much from the guard. You should either have your opponent in the closed guard just to rest or have him pushed away out of your guard. He feels you can get hurt trying to fight from the guard.

I agree with this in a MMA context. That the guard is not “dominant” in a pure grappling context is news to me, but that’s fine. I certainly don’t think it’s the most dominant. My MMA instructor’s opinion of the guard is pretty low. He feels it’s better than being mounted and that’s about the most you can say about it (at least against someone who knows how to avoid submissions). His advice is to push out of it and start over. He’s of the opinion that you should get out of it immediately. Of course, his bread and butter is striking, so he goes back to his feet. In MMA and on the street, I agree.

I used to try to sweep when I was in the guard, but have found it extremely difficult to do. When the sweep fails, you often get passed. The other option is attempting a submission. If that fails you can get stacked and passed. Triangle chokes, arm triangle chokes, and guillotine chokes are often safe bets to try. But to execute locks on limbs you really risk getting passed, so you better be right on to execute it.

My guard sucks and is basically defensive (definitely not dominant). I’ve taken my MMA instructor’s advice to push out when I find myself in the guard and that seems to be the best advice I’ve gotten in this game. But, I’m working on developing a guard game (and losing a bunch in the process!). I have a day dedicated to just BJJ. It seems like 90% of it is a guard game. I suppose if 90% of it was a mount game, then that would really indicate a problem.