Conserving energy

[shamster]

I'm at the point where I'm moving better these days as far as positions. Especially with new white belts in the class, I'm able to get into more dominant positions more often these days.

The problem I have though, is I often can't finish the submissions due to not having enough energy and strength left. Even worse is that I am smaller and weaker than almost everyone else in class, so they can often power their way out. For example, I took someone's back yesterday (2 different people actually). Then I tried to go for the RNC, but couldn't finish it off. At first, I didn't have the choke around the right place. By the time I did, I had no strenght left. I feel really weak around the chest area and I can't close enough pressure it seems. The same problem with the arm triangle I tried a few times.

Any suggestions here for a physically weaker guy?

[Penance]

You probably won't want to hear this, but...don't worry about submissions.

Work 90% on position and control. If you're able to take dominant positions and hold them, awesome! Keep practicing that. Maintain the position as long as you can and if/when they finally escape try to be thinking ahead so that you flow into the next position smoothly and IN CONTROL.

As you get better, try to use less and less strength. Use just enough pushing and pulling to get the job done. Try to use all parts of your body: your head, your elbows, your knees. Get a feel for using gravity and weight to your advantage.

Get to the point where you don't mind when someone gets good position on you. You don't want to have the mindset of "I need to submit this guy ASAP or hold onto this position at all costs or else I'm screwed."

As you found out, there's no point in getting someone's back if you're too exhausted to do anything once you get there.

[shamster]

Very good suggestions...thanks! I think what is happening is I am starting to see more submisssion opportunities, and I am too eager to go for them. Problem is, the guys who are stronger than me (which is pretty much every guy in class) can often resist them, such as pulling down on my arm to prevent a choke.

Sounds like a good idea to hold on to the position rather than trying to end it quickly. Maybe take the guy's back and try to not let him escape. Then let him tire himself out and create more openings b4 I go for the final sub?

[TechniqueFreak]

I've been right where you're at. This is what you need to start doing:
1. Save your energy.
2. Make you're opponent tired.
3. Forget about your lack of strength. Lift weights if needed.
4. Drill escapes from bad positions. Drill sweeps from your guard. Drill holding good positions.
5. Slow down and relax regarding finishing opponents.
Now, I'll give you specifics. People are powering out. Great! Every time some tall, bodybuilder freak does this to you, count it as a victory. It means that they aren't smart grapplers and will get tired. (See suggestion #2.) Side control is king. Knee-on-stomach and mount will not be stable for you. Hold side control and be looking for a submission when he's tired. It is more important that you hold back mount than it is for you to submit. As for RNC, I like it. Here's how I do it: First, I put leg hooks in. Second, I secure harness grip with my arms (1 of my arms under his arm, the other over his shoulder--I join my arms.) After he struggles unsuccessfully to escape, I put my left elbow under his chin. Both his hands will come to my arm to defend. If not, I have RNC using my left arm and he taps. Otherwise, as soon as both his hands come to my arm, I push that arm down toward his waist and immediately put my right elbow under his chin for RNC.
Personally, I never try any submissions when my opponent is fresh. I control him, wait until he gets out of breath, then attack. Usually, it takes 3 or 4 tries before he taps. Also, stop trying to force a submission your opponent is aware of. Well timed, correctly set up surprise attacks are efficient.

[SamuraiGuy]

So you work to get the positions then your too tired...

Just submit them from the first position, I.E. the bottom of gaurd, forget mount or backmount, lol jk.

Although that is a good option... heres my real advice...

Wait.. not until they are tired, until you are not tired, and I'm not talking about in class... push yourself and your conditioning and muscle endurance will go to shit... keep pushing yourself... eventually you wont get tired..

After BJJ yesterday I was stumbling around like I was piss drunk I was so tired, even though I knew I was going to get killed I took 3 more matches after class with people much fresher than me. I submitted one of them worse than me, (also got submitted when I got ridiculously tired), got submitted 3 times by one better than me (and submitted him once, THIS IS WHERE YOU LEARN), and then I went up againt someone totally out of my league and he kicked my ass...

Over time it comes...

Other than that... you need to work on the technique of your submissions. You mentioned you had a head and arm/arm triangle... great, what did you do to finish it, the RNC is pretty self explanatory but the head and arm, you really need to do alot to do it right.

First where you on the same side as where your hands met, if you get it while mounted, or in side control from the opposite side, jump over to the same side.

Next, head as far down on their shoulder that they can go by down on the shoulder I mean closer to the shoulder joint not the elbow, DRIVE their shoulder into their neck with your head, SPRAWL OUT (this is how you get the bigger guys), after youve sprawled, walk around to their head.

This isnt a critiscism but I bet you cant say that you did all of those when trying to finish it. Learn the finer points of submissions, if you dont know ASK.

And Good Luck.

[Adept]

Hmm, I think the most important in my newaza training is to not worry about submitting the other guy too much. I'm not worried about him, I'm worried about me first. Just think John Travolta's "Stayin' Alive" song, your opponent will either tire himself out or make a mistake and extend a limb for you to crank on.

So just stay alive lol.

[J-Luck]

I'm at the point where I'm moving better these days as far as positions. Especially with new white belts in the class, I'm able to get into more dominant positions more often these days.

The problem I have though, is I often can't finish the submissions due to not having enough energy and strength left. Even worse is that I am smaller and weaker than almost everyone else in class, so they can often power their way out. For example, I took someone's back yesterday (2 different people actually). Then I tried to go for the RNC, but couldn't finish it off. At first, I didn't have the choke around the right place. By the time I did, I had no strenght left. I feel really weak around the chest area and I can't close enough pressure it seems. The same problem with the arm triangle I tried a few times.

Any suggestions here for a physically weaker guy?

How many times a week do you go, and for how many hours each session?

AT LEAST every other night make sure to jog at least 30 min... that's something any athlete should be doing, and probably more. I make sure 5-6 times a week. If you're trying to retain any muscle mass though, I wouldn't go with any more than that as far as running, which brings me to my next point... do you lift?

If you wanna get bigger, increase the weight, decrease sets and reps. Wanna tone up, decrease weight, increase sets and reps. Endurance muscle training is even less weight with way more reps and sets. If I were you though, it sounds like you'd wanna go for toning, so you at least get some strength training, but you get a lil feel for endurance training also.

Also, I forgot who said it, but keep drilling. Before every class jog for 10-15 min to warm up, get there early with someone and drill escapes, takedown defense, sweeps, positions and anything else before class starts.

Always control breathing, this is one of the most overlooked aspects of being able to hang in there while running, drilling, or rolling(I think it's called rolling right?).

[J-Luck]

Also, when it comes to running, to get a good feel for the quick bursts of activity that can happen in bjj, during your run, for the last 10 min., every 2 min, at the last 30 sec of those 2 mins., sprint.

[shamster]

Great advice from all...thanks a bunch! I am trying to relax more in future rolling sessions. Tried it last night and I can already see how it's working.

Questions about the breathing though. What is the right way to control breathing? And what breathing mistakes are common? Would it be best to try to keep a controlled breathing pattern, sort of like what joggers do?

[lei_kung]

Wait.. not until they are tired, until you are not tired, and I'm not talking about in class... push yourself and your conditioning and muscle endurance will go to shit... keep pushing yourself... eventually you wont get tired..

After BJJ yesterday I was stumbling around like I was piss drunk I was so tired, even though I knew I was going to get killed I took 3 more matches after class with people much fresher than me. I submitted one of them worse than me, (also got submitted when I got ridiculously tired), got submitted 3 times by one better than me (and submitted him once, THIS IS WHERE YOU LEARN), and then I went up againt someone totally out of my league and he kicked my ass...

I personally find this to be poor advice. I will grant that this is a way to increase your endurance but I'm a firm believer in not training technique when tired. This leads to training muscle memory in poor technique because your body will naturally adjust to compensate for how fatigued you are. This is the same reason why you shouldn't lift weights before a technique training session but lifting after is fine.

Everyone will do as they like, I personally believe the technique is the key to being successful in any martial art (or any sport for that matter). When training technique I fully believe you should always be fresh. Once technique starts to suffer because of being tired, take a break or stop for the day.

In stead of pushing yourself while rolling for endurance, do endurance training and add weights or find another way to push yourself while your technique isn't being subjected to bad form from fatigue.

Lei Kung

[AshleyGH]

being a women rolling with guys it's easier for me to roll and go with them. Use the bigger person's body weight to your advantage. Just relax, know at least three moves from everything:guard, mount, half guard, side body...that way if something doesn't work, move on to something else and don't waste you energy because for example if someone bigger than you has you in a scarf hold and you can't get out it's much easier to go in the direction of their body and roll them over rather than squirm and fight your way out.

[SamuraiGuy]

I personally find this to be poor advice. I will grant that this is a way to increase your endurance but I'm a firm believer in not training technique when tired. This leads to training muscle memory in poor technique because your body will naturally adjust to compensate for how fatigued you are. This is the same reason why you shouldn't lift weights before a technique training session but lifting after is fine.

Everyone will do as they like, I personally believe the technique is the key to being successful in any martial art (or any sport for that matter). When training technique I fully believe you should always be fresh. Once technique starts to suffer because of being tired, take a break or stop for the day.

In stead of pushing yourself while rolling for endurance, do endurance training and add weights or find another way to push yourself while your technique isn't being subjected to bad form from fatigue.

Lei Kung

Dont you think being soo tired forces you to use technique if you hope to win...

I'm not talking about getting really tired, and being like... ... "ah man im tired... soo tired..*tries to throw a leg over the face for an armbar*", I'm talking about when your tired and your like "I cant grab his arm and stuff it in for a proper armbar because I'm too tired.. maybe if I over hook it, I'll be able to control without strength/grip"... yeah see, now I would probably use the overhook fresh or not... but many people feel when your tired your forced to use technique if you want to still be competitive in the rolling, of course if you just flop around, half ass techniques, think about wanting it to end and get tapped your not gonna learn.

But if your thinking that you need to beat him, and you have no strength left, then you can beat him, or at least compete with him, maybe put him in a bad spot... than you know your learning and using technique.

[J-Luck]

Great advice from all...thanks a bunch! I am trying to relax more in future rolling sessions. Tried it last night and I can already see how it's working.

Questions about the breathing though. What is the right way to control breathing? And what breathing mistakes are common? Would it be best to try to keep a controlled breathing pattern, sort of like what joggers do?

Controlled breathing=excellent. It's a must have, not an option. Sometimes it's not your endurance that's lacking, it's your regulated, consistent, breathing that can be lacking.

[shamster]

When you say controlled, that means you keep consistent breathing the whole time as best you can right? I notice a lot of people when relaxed won't think about breathing...but will be huffing and puffing after a burst of energy.