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This one guard break where they press your hips to the ground then put their knee on your tailbone and sit back is really giving me trouble, mainly by heavier guys. For guys around my weight I can usually swim my arms and pull them back in my guard but heavier guys generally have a strength advantage over me and I can't budge their arms so they pass my guard everytime. Anybody have any suggestions or tips on how to counter this or how to work from an open guard in this position when they break your guard?
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Hey BJJ,
Now, I'm no BJJ expert here or anything, but what I would do personally, is release my closed guard and go into the spider guard. You might as well save your energy in accepting the inevitable future of having your guard broken, but that doesn't mean you can't recompose your full guard later on. You can still fight back. Better to go into a spider guard than to lose the guard position period.
You don't have to use the spider guard, it was just my personal example. What's the important issue here is that you need to realize that you've lost your closed guard and you need to unhook you legs to recompose it. Hope that helps. -
Sweep them directly to the side and immediately take mount. The best part is, for this sweep, you don't even open your guard!
1. Big guy is in your closed guard. He puts both hands on your midsection and presses down.
2. He picks a side and puts one knee in the middle of your butt. You will sweep him toward the side that he puts the knee in your butt.
3. Wait until he just starts to push to open your guard. All at the same time, block his elbow from posting out with your hand, use your other hand to grab his lapel and direct him over, while twisting with your hips to take him over.
4. Come up on top and settle into mount, arms out wide and your hips down, grapevining his legs.Comment
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I mainly do no-gi so spider guard is out of the question. I'll take your advice in trying some sort of open guard.Originally posted by Adept
I'll definitely give this a shot when I train today, thanks!Sweep them directly to the side and immediately take mount. The best part is, for this sweep, you don't even open your guard!
1. Big guy is in your closed guard. He puts both hands on your midsection and presses down.
2. He picks a side and puts one knee in the middle of your butt. You will sweep him toward the side that he puts the knee in your butt.
3. Wait until he just starts to push to open your guard. All at the same time, block his elbow from posting out with your hand, use your other hand to grab his lapel and direct him over, while twisting with your hips to take him over.
4. Come up on top and settle into mount, arms out wide and your hips down, grapevining his legs.Comment
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With heavier guys that go for the guard break, and under leg pass or knee drive pass typically what I do is go on the attack with sweeps... Even if you don't get the sweep everytime you can force him on the defensive and regain your guard, I will go at a variety of sweeps immediately, post my leg on the hip of the leg my opponent posted out and go for the push sweep, usually that is my feint and as he compensates his base to defend I transition to the scissor sweep or elevator sweep... the process goes and if you don't give him any space and you keep the sweeps tight usually you can force him to give you back your guard or fall victim to one of the sweeps.
I am a little guy in comparison to most of the guys I train with so working from the open guard is something I had to get used to fast...Comment
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Curious, as how do you sweep him using these steps WITHOUT OPENING the guard? If your legs are hooked up in the closed guard position, it's your hands that are taking him over? I'm actually trying to visualize this sweep of yours in my mind and shadow grappling it right now on the floor as I type this lol. One hand is on lapel and the other is on his hand....how do you flip him over, then? He's also a big guy in your guard, so your strength can't match his. I'm even modifying this a little, with one hand on his hand and my other hand on the leg that the big guy is posting on for base. I don't see it happening in the closed guard. Help?Originally posted by TechniqueFreak
Oh, didn't know that lol. But even with no-gi, it's possible to do a modified variation of the spider guard. Lock your shins into the guy's biceps and wrap your hands to his triceps. So imagine the guy's biceps jammed into your shins in the guard position, with your hands underhooking his triceps and pulling it into your shins. A butterfly sweep comes to mind. It's easy to escape but it's not designed for sweeps or submissions, but rather recomposition of the full guard.Originally posted by Bjjexpertise@beComment
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I've seen one person in my class counter the guard break by opening his guard and wrapping his left leg around the opponent's right arm and wrapping his right leg around the opponent's left arm, or at least that's what it looked like at the time. Is this what you're talking about here?Originally posted by AdeptComment
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^^^^
That sounds more like a double arm bar that you are describing. But everyone visualizes differently so that may not be what you meant at all, but yes during a guard break you can go for the double arm bar he pushes down with both arms and doesn't keep his elbows in position... otherwise I am not quite sure.
The closed guard sweep that TechniqueFreak was talking about I have not been able to figure out yet either, could you post more details on it?
The only sweep I know without opening the guard at all, is a variation of the hand stand sweep, when he posts the leg, hook it with the same side arm, use your free hand for the hand stand push, push your hips to the ceiling and drive forward using your hand for power. It's akward for me still but my coach does it all the time and makes it look entirely too easy, if the guy tries to stand up to defend to sweep, hook his newly posted leg with either foot and push the other foot into his hip and you will usually still get the sweep... use the momentum to pull strait into mount....
That may help some... good luck...
JordanComment
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I told you pretty much everything you need. What I didn't mention is that it won't work if your opponent's posture and weight are low, with his leg that is not in the middle of your butt sticking way out to the side. If he does this, then it puts all his weight on the wrong side, and yeah, the move won't work. If you're sweeping the guy to your left, you grip his left lapel with your right hand. However, the grips with your hands are only a detail. The power comes from twisting with your hips. You don't open your legs--you don't need to, and to do this particular sweep, you don't have time to anyway. At the moment when he moves one knee inward and has high posture and is beginning to push to uncross your ankles HE HAS NO BASE ON ONE SIDE. The only base available is with his right arm, but you're grabbing it with your left hand. If you open your guard, he'll immediately swim both arms under your legs (which would be easy given that both his arms are already down) and now it's a fight. You don't want that, so leave your ankles crossed, twist your hips at exactly the right time, and sweep him over.Comment
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Every time he sets his knee in your butt, scoot your butt back to a position between his knees and close into him. Drives them crazy. He will get a little sloppy trying to get ahead of you in this game and then you sweep him.
The best way to avoid this pass in the first place is to learn to attack from your guard. He won't start this pass if he is having to concentrate on defending. First, you have to break his posture and then you have to attempt submission combos.Comment
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I have a problem with constantly attacking since I can never get control of a wrist or an arm. This is no gi and this guy I go against never wears a shirt so he's as slippery as can be. I've tried numerous grips ranging from armdrag to wrist control to grabbing my shirt but he just slips out everytime. Meh, just something I gotta work on I suppose.Comment
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If it's that bad, perhaps you should make space and stand up instead of staying in guard. I think you have to work on ways to get his back if you can't control his arms or deal with him in your guard.Comment
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I'm actually fairly good at taking people's back, it may be since I come from a wrestling background. I know I can work them from top but the guard was something I wanted to work on since I haven't paid much attention to it.Comment
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OK, then work your guard and don't worry about being on the losing end for a while. Keep trying to analize whats happening and it will eventually come to you. Don't get down when an approach dosen't work. Just keep being creative.
But remember, the object of being in guard is not to stay in guard. It is to submit or sweep your opponent and move up the progression of positional
superiority until you have an opportunity to attack. Combine your attacks and reversals into progressions. If you miss a grip on the first try, move quickly into plan B and plan C and so on. When you stop and just try to maintain is when you will get passed.
Just a tip, when he drops the shoulder to bring your leg up and go around it, quickly bend that knee collapsing your leg in front of him and back around to it's original position around his side.
This takes a little hip movement and flexibility; but, it works. If possible, grab his left wrist and hold it out while you do this.
Another thing to try is this. As he comes around your leg he is driving toward you and you know that your guard is passed. Don't wait any longer. Launch your hips straight up at him and roll backwards over your shoulder. As you roll down on your knees, tuck your right foot and shin up under you to make it easy to continue rolling backward. As you roll backward to your back, recompose your guard. This takes some practice.
Good luck.Comment
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Yeah no-gi can get tricky when you are slippery like that, use Neck Control too to help compensate for the lack of grip on wrists etc. There are some good Neck Control attacks that will help to setup other moves... This is not my "area of expertise" but maybe someone else here can help point you in the right direction... When I expressed this problem to my Coach when I was first starting out he helped me learn some ways to use Neck Control as a solution....
I think gaittec's advice was very sound as well, good post....
JordanComment
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