What are the essential grappling elements mixed martial artist should learn?

[traveller]

What are the essential grappling elements mixed martial artist should learn?
BJJ
collegiate wrestling
catch wrestling
etc
etc.

[jubaji]

An excellent thread topic, sir!

I'm gonna say that developing the ability to control the tie-up (standing) is one important element.

Let me qualify my musings by saying that, although I've worked out with lots and lots of folks from lots and lots of backgrounds in lots of places and done my own 'research' very informally, I am not a MMA guy per se.

Just a 'lowly' wrestler!

[traveller]

Too me it is not a matter of which style you learn, but what is successful in your overall game plan and use for the art.
I primarily look to ground tactics to be able to get me out of a situation on the ground, but I also like to know enough that if I need to stay on the ground I can survive.

I am not talking about a sanctioned fight, but real situations.
If I was constantly in the ring, I would think a combination of wrestling take downs and holds, and BJJ techniques would be one of my three top concerns.
It also would depend upon weight class.
So how about it guys, any thoughts.
Please be specific if you are discussing ring or street if you think there is any difference.
You may find some post in Urban Street Combatives useful.

[traveller]

Oh Jubaji beat me to the first post.

[traveller]

Would controling the tie-up be so you could avoid going down or so you could use close quarter leg strikes, forearms, etc?

[jubaji]

Would controling the tie-up be so you could avoid going down or so you could use close quarter leg strikes, forearms, etc?

Well, let's say outside of a formal 'event' since that would make things very context-specific depending on which of us is speaking. My preference has usually been to control the tie in order to facilitate taking the back (standing) to then trip, throw, sag, or simply control. If it's decided that the other fella needs to go down, I greatly prefer to control his position while he is face-down and depending on the situation, let him stew there for a bit, or start going to work on him.

[sapatiero]

What are the essential grappling elements mixed martial artist should learn?
BJJ
collegiate wrestling
catch wrestling
etc
etc.

My thoughts are:

BJJ for the guard work & subs
wrestling for take downs & getting a good base & sprawl
Judo for the grips
Shootfighting/Sambo for the leglocks (these are in other disciplines but not taught to beginners)

[aseepish]

I would also add Muay Thai (plumb) and Dumog for clinch situations.

[grappler-jordan]

Mmmm... good post...

I think you have to have a good solid standing clench, as well as good takedowns, grips (for GI) and obviously submissions are a key. Make sure you understand the basic positions, guard, side-mount/control, mount, rear-mount etc. Another key is transitioning attacks, flow of attack is very important. To cover these basic concepts I would recommended...

1. BJJ (if you take nothing else a GOOD BJJ school should cover most of this... specifically covered, positions, submissions, flow of attack.)
2. Wrestling (For standing clench, balance, good base and athleticism)
3. Judo (For Grips and throws)

I think most would agree these are the arts the majority of championship grapplers train in...

[bigred389]

I would also add Muay Thai (plumb) and Dumog for clinch situations.

I'd actually love to hear a wrestler's(or really any mainstream grappler) take on Dumog.

Anybody?

[Dale B.]

I agree with what was already said here. Training wrestling, BJJ, Judo, and Sambo will give you an excellent ground game.

What I want to add is that to be a good striker, it is important to be well versed in wrestling. The reason Chuck Lidell has such good take down defense is that he wrestled in college. He is also great at standing up once down. This give him the advantage on keeping the fight standing up, where he has a distinctive striking advantage.

And for the ground who can't get the fight to the ground for whatever reason should be well versed in striking also. Probably Muay Thai or kick boxing.

[Tim McFatridge]

Well this is starting out to be a very good thread...I hope we can keep it that way. I agree with all that has been said as well. One thing I would like to add however is what grappler jordan touched on and that is flowing. It is very important to flow. I was taught early on not to spend alot of time fighting for a lock or sub...if you have it and you know you have it then thats one thing, but if he is fighting it and you are having a hard time setting the sub then move to the next lock. Thats what I like about shooto, they teach lock flows for every limb and even the head(chokes,neck cranks reverse neck cranks, front face lock etc.) Good stuff guys lets keep it up.

I also agree that you need to really work the tie up or clinch position especially when on the street. This can keep you from going to the ground unless you want to.

[sapatiero]

Good point - it's too easy to get 'emotionally attached to a submission' rather than move on or use it as a decoy for something else. As Rickson said before he learnt english... "Flow with the go"

[grappler-jordan]

Good point - it's too easy to get 'emotionally attached to a submission' rather than move on or use it as a decoy for something else. As Rickson said before he learnt english... "Flow with the go"

Great quote from the "Choke" DVD, I always laugh at that one...

[Clooneytkd]

hmm yeah, definetly wrestling for take downs.(im not a fan boy) i have done it for about 6 and a half years and found it to be the most effective, my own opinion of course. judo as well, but the problem i found with judo while i was taking it was that they stressed that you shouldnt bend over,you sould always have a straight back. i dissagree with that. some times to get the upper hand you have to change levels, lower your body and approach at all angles. i had more than 100 matches in my career, you see all types of shit and after a while you figure your own style out.
as for judo i would say it helped me out with hip throws and the juijitsu was good but you never truly have your own style. althought theirs trial and error, wrestling give you more of a flexablity that you dont have in judo. obviously you can like certain moves and use them alot, but judo is just to restricted. but if it was up to me i would keep it standing with boxing and tkd. then ground game if your getting owned. when you get guys on the ground they tend to freak out, maybe bite you, take a heroin needle out of there back pocket so its always sketchy. yeah but everyone should know some bjj and juijitsu. they are very important for all ground skills. wrestling helped me alot, i got so many gi chokes after i put the hooks in.