Roger Gracie wants to get KTFO in MMA

[JkD187]

I agree there is an ego issue to overcome for some of the Gracie's... I have discussed this before and I in no way disagree with that. I honestly think that Roger, Ryron, some of the younger Gracies may be able to get beyond that and compete effectively in MMA... again though I agree that they need a team to train with. It would be something else to see Roger Gracie at MFS or BTT... I doubt that will ever happen but it would be pretty amazing.

The post I disagreed with was when you said "No gracie from any era will not succeed in top level MMA....never...due to the simple fact that they are doing Jiu-Jitsu all day everyday there whole lives...then start to branch out a few years before they try MMA....im sorry but it doesnt work like that...thats building a fighter who is great on the ground with a gi on but who is horrible at striking and takedowns without the gi." , That I can't agree with, ALOT of MMA fighters start that way... and like you said, if they went to a good camp, and had good training partners, they could be successful in MMA. It's the ego that is the real issue in my opinon...

Very true however if you look at the top well rounded MMA fighters now a days you'll see that most of them have trained in MMA from the very begining.The reason's why such top well rounded fighters such as Rich Franklin and many many others im not sure im your fam with them or not but they all started MMA from the begining and had alot of amatuer exp.If you are fam with Shooto you'll see what i mean.In the fly weight div all the way up to the Lightweight Div pretty much every single guy in the Top 10 is a Shooto fighter.Shooto is a blend of Boxing BJJ Muay thai Freestyle Wrestling Greco Roman Wrestling Judo Sambo and Catch Wrestling all modified to fit with each other and set up to flow from position to positon and transition from ground to standing....standing to ground and so on and so forth.Couple that with the fact that you have to Earn your way to Being a Pro by competing in lots and lots of amatuer comp...that gives you so much experince that by the time you make it to the regional tourney and then the all Japan tourney(once a year each) that your already an experienced fighter.Mostly all the pro's whove had extensive amatuer backgrouds have become phenomial well rounded cahampions.The same goes from all the former soviet union fighters in the hw div in boxing...they are all champs now and had tons of amatuer exp.Starting in MMA from the begining and getting tons of amatuer exp has proven abroad to be the key to being a well rounded top fighter.

[Shaolin Bushido]

Don Frye is not trash. Whoever said that is just disrespectful. He is, however, old as hell.

[JkD187]

Don Frye is not trash. Whoever said that is just disrespectful. He is, however, old as hell.

Yea thats real classy as well lol.

[sapatiero]

If Roger would go and train at MFS Elite or AKA he would have great trainers and training partners....

Why would Roger want to do that? He's already part of a team - Gracie Barra. I've sat in my sweaty gi at the side of the mat & watched the GB combat team go at it, for 2 hours, at full pelt, in 40 degrees. They really work at it, and they have a BJJ coach, a wrestling coach, and a muai thai coach. When Roger's training there he can spar with current fighters like Babalu, or Pe De Pano.

PS. Roger's been boxing for years.

[sapatiero]

No gracie from any era will not succeed in top level MMA....never...due to the simple fact that they are doing Jiu-Jitsu all day everyday there whole lives...then start to branch out a few years before they try MMA....

It's a good point. IMO The 'sportification' of jiu jitsu has had both positive & negative implications. Yes - it's brought friendly tournaments to the masses BUT it's also lead to a large number of academies that focus purely on tournament BJJ to the detriment of self defense or MMA.

But the 'old school' gracies such as Helio, Rorion, Rickson & Renzo did BJJ that was more biased towards the practical side. Rickson & Renzo did plenty of streetfighting & MMA from a young age. Ricksons MMA fight with Zulu was at an age of 18, and you can see a young Ralek (15? 16?) having a streetfight with a kickboxer on the second Gracies In Action DVD. So I would say that SOME start to branch out a few years before they try MMA...

The Gracies nowadays cannot take anything for granted, and should not do MMA unless they've crosstrained extensively IMO.

[JkD187]

Why would Roger want to do that? He's already part of a team - Gracie Barra. I've sat in my sweaty gi at the side of the mat & watched the GB combat team go at it, for 2 hours, at full pelt, in 40 degrees. They really work at it, and they have a BJJ coach, a wrestling coach, and a muai thai coach. When Roger's training there he can spar with current fighters like Babalu, or Pe De Pano.

PS. Roger's been boxing for years.

Yes i know that...although i wasnt there first hand to witness it but there is a huge difference in just training boxing with gracie barra(im sure they have some fantastic coaches)and training with coaches the likes of guys at MFS AKA or ATT.Training in boxing is nice and a great addition to there arsenal however what really makes the boxing effective is how you spar it against your training partners....now in Gracie Barra im sure there are good strikers...but if im not mistaken Babalu is the best striker there.That's only one good partner to spar against and try and make your boxing work at top level..not disrespect to Babalu hes one of my fav fighters....but his striking isnt top notch.At AKA MFS Elite or ATT you have famous great coaches in every aspect of the game along with multiple world champion training patners to help you beter your game.No disrespect to Gracie Barra but there combat team is b level compared to alot of the teams in the states.

[JkD187]

It's a good point. IMO The 'sportification' of jiu jitsu has had both positive & negative implications. Yes - it's brought friendly tournaments to the masses BUT it's also lead to a large number of academies that focus purely on tournament BJJ to the detriment of self defense or MMA.

But the 'old school' gracies such as Helio, Rorion, Rickson & Renzo did BJJ that was more biased towards the practical side. Rickson & Renzo did plenty of streetfighting & MMA from a young age. Ricksons MMA fight with Zulu was at an age of 18, and you can see a young Ralek (15? 16?) having a streetfight with a kickboxer on the second Gracies In Action DVD. So I would say that SOME start to branch out a few years before they try MMA...

The Gracies nowadays cannot take anything for granted, and should not do MMA unless they've crosstrained extensively IMO.

The only problem with the streetfights and early mma fights is that all the guys sucked back then and doesnt even count towards experience in todays top level mma comp.

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

and you can see a young Ralek (15? 16?) having a streetfight with a kickboxer on the second Gracies In Action DVD.

Sadly, the fight youre thinking of is hardly a street fight...

Watch how much Ralek and his opponent suck badly....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjUFfS_bcDo

[sapatiero]

Agreed. But my point is that some of the family do get experience at a young age outside of sport bjj.

[OmaPlata]

The only problem with the streetfights and early mma fights is that all the guys sucked back then and doesnt even count towards experience in todays top level mma comp.

It does count as experience, how did the gracies or any else for that matter know who they were fighting?? A street fight is THE best way to start a career in MMA. It isnt? look at Pat Militech, this guy had at least 90 street fights before he trained in BJJ. He got his ass handed to him in there so started training BJJ, along with other stuff. The list is endless as to who were known street fighters before and during their turn to MMA and martial arts training.
Every fight counts and good fighters learn something from everyone they get in

[JkD187]

It does count as experience, how did the gracies or any else for that matter know who they were fighting?? A street fight is THE best way to start a career in MMA. It isnt? look at Pat Militech, this guy had at least 90 street fights before he trained in BJJ. He got his ass handed to him in there so started training BJJ, along with other stuff. The list is endless as to who were known street fighters before and during their turn to MMA and martial arts training.
Every fight counts and good fighters learn something from everyone they get in

Jesus Christ that is the most retarted thing ive ever heard you say(and this is comming from YOU)How in the hell are a bunch of untrained drunks in the "street"going to prepare you to face skilled athlete's you idiot.Compete in some amatuer mma before turning pro and you will be fine...not engage in meaningless fights on concrete with your buddys.Shit im sure if you think the street gives you exp you must have a whole lot of exp since you couldnt even submit some street bum from your guard you can.

[OmaPlata]

Jesus Christ that is the most retarted thing ive ever heard you say(and this is comming from YOU)How in the hell are a bunch of untrained drunks in the "street"going to prepare you to face skilled athlete's you idiot.Compete in some amatuer mma before turning pro and you will be fine...not engage in meaningless fights on concrete with your buddys.Shit im sure if you think the street gives you exp you must have a whole lot of exp since you couldnt even submit some street bum from your guard you can.

well since you know soooooooooo much, address the fact the Pat Militech was a 'known' street fighter before turning to MMA. All those fights were meaningless? Not according to Pat, who knows more than your whole family tree combined, about, well, probably everything, including mma. And why are street fights only with drunk bums? Maybe thats who you have fought, but not the ones Ive seen lately. what a tool

[jubaji]

what an idiot

Oh yeah, most street fights are between highly trained professionals....

[JkD187]

well since you know soooooooooo much, address the fact the Pat Militech was a 'known' street fighter before turning to MMA. All those fights were meaningless? Not according to Pat, who knows more than your whole family tree combined, about, well, probably everything, including mma. And why are street fights only with drunk bums? Maybe thats who you have fought, but not the ones Ive seen lately. what a tool

Yes Miletich knows a world more about MMA then i do...but maybe it had more to do with the mental side then physical....ever think about it like that??? maybe fighting so many times on the street mentaly prepared him for when he actually turned pro??? who knows but i do know that fighting your average joe or even a somewhat trained person or even a blue belt in BJJ with some wrestling and muay thai or boxing training will NOT prepare you for the TOP MMA fighters out there.Watch all access Rich Franklin to see what i mean"Any bouncer or bruiser off the street can come into amatuer MMA or even low level Pro and do farely well....However if you are not a hybrid refined athlete then there is absolutely no way you would survive in the top level MMA" now thats not word for word but you get the point dont ya? who's the tool now homoplata?

[OmaPlata]

Yes Miletich knows a world more about MMA then i do...but maybe it had more to do with the mental side then physical....ever think about it like that??? maybe fighting so many times on the street mentaly prepared him for when he actually turned pro??? who knows but i do know that fighting your average joe or even a somewhat trained person or even a blue belt in BJJ with some wrestling and muay thai or boxing training will NOT prepare you for the TOP MMA fighters out there.Watch all access Rich Franklin to see what i mean"Any bouncer or bruiser off the street can come into amatuer MMA or even low level Pro and do farely well....However if you are not a hybrid refined athlete then there is absolutely no way you would survive in the top level MMA" now thats not word for word but you get the point dont ya? who's the tool now homoplata?

You gotta be the dumbest tool in the shed. Who said fighting in the street is the last step to fighting the top fighters in the world? Are you really this stupid? Street fighting was the start of many fighters careers, most of "the top fighters in MMA' as you love to mention and ride the nuts of, all started in street fights. Its a start, and its a FAR better start to a career in MMA than not having any random street fights at all, in fact, any fighting is better. So Im not sure what your were spewing out your ass here, you think its better to never be in fights, then join a martial art, still never fight, then join the MMA ranks???? WTF. LOL.

Again you stuck you head in your loose ass with the "if youre not a highly trained athlete, you cant survive in MMA" LOL, I gotta keeping laughing Im falling off the chair, Im glad Tank Abbot listened to you before joining MMA, he is just one awesome HYbrid athlete there lol. But of course, NONE OF TANKS STREET FIGHTS HELPED HIM IN MMA, NONE, your point is well made there jr , i mean jr tool