is ground fighting overrhyped for everyday self defence?

[kiddbjj]

hey all

serious question, i'm not trolling.
in your opinion "is ground fighting overhyped for everyday self defence"?

i do bjj myself, i'm a blue belt so i have some experience in ground styles, but it seems to me that bjj is overhyped for everyday defence.

i mean if its a purely one on one situation with no weapons then its great but lets be honest most self defence situations in reality involve either weapons, multiple opponents or both.

im starting to think that maybe a strike and sprawl style would be better suited for everyday self defence, eg. mt with a little wrestling

from my experience it seems that beyond a blue belt level in bjj the techniques become far more sportbjj oriented and very 'technical', whereas the techniques up to blue are more the fundamental and ready to use techniques. as you can see in the ufc most of the submissions are good old arm bars triangles and rear naked chokes, beginners stuff really. and as soon as you add the striking element to the ground the majority of the sportbjj stuff goes out the window.

just my thoughts what do you think? my emphasis is not one on one match fighting but stuff for self protection.

[Oraenor]

BJJ has alot of hype since the gracies success in the UFC. It is a good sport but does fail when people fight dirty in street situations

[SamuraiGuy]

How come 99% of the people who bash BJJ are always a blue belt in it?

[J-Luck]

BJJ has alot of hype since the gracies success in the UFC. It is a good sport but does fail when people fight dirty in street situations

Lol. I love when people say ignorant things like this.

[DJColdfusion]

Is BJJ over-hyped . . . in some ways yes.

I'm a purple belt and I teach a few classes every week and work with some fairly decent fighters from time to time and the biggest issue I have is when a new fighter comes to class and tells me "I have a fight next week so I wanted to get in a few classes so my grappling will be ready" and yes I have had guys use that EXACT phrase.

Jiu-Jitsu won't solve all of you self defense problems but it does much more to do so than most other arts that are essentially jumping around and screaming while attacking people who aren't really there.

And the fundamentals, what an earlier poster referenced as skills taught up to blue belt level, are the foundation of the system. Even the 7th, 8th, and 9th degree black belts should still practice them. Almost all of the so called advanced moves are variations of or a combination of the basic techniques.

A blue belt is not an expert. They are, at best, an advanced beginner. I'm not going to get too far into it but I wrote a bit about a very similar topic (What it takes to become an expert) in an article on my website (MaximumG.com) called Jiu-Jitsu: Perspective and skill.

The following is from the conclusion of Jiu-Jitsu: Perspective and skill:

[ . . . ] older blue belts and younger purple belts both seem to know a ton of techniques but they still feel that pause that occurs when they have to make a decision. Their techniques have a disconnected feel to them as they pause to consider their situation . . . even if that pause is extremely short. Their current Level would easily translate to Level 3: Competent.

The older purples and most brown belts seem to flow more efficiently because they have entered the proficient level and spend much less time on the decision making process and begin to feel their opponent's actions. They have reached Level 4: Proficient.

Black belts have arrived at Level 5: Expert and in most situations they simply react. They are occasionally forced to revert to the novice level when they are faced with a situation that their vast amount of training has not internalized for them and they have to progress through the different levels of skill acquisition before they can make the reaction to the new stimulus automatic. Just because you're an expert doesn't mean you're done learning.

If you want to get good, you need to train. But training alone is not enough. You need to train in an intelligent, orchestrated manner so that you can develop the perspective needed to progress your game and move your skill level towards the expert/black belt level.

[Tom Yum]

BJJ has alot of hype since the gracies success in the UFC. It is a good sport but does fail when people fight dirty in street situations

Did you catch the article about the guy who sank in a guilotine on the bank robber? The robber tried to claw out his eyes - but the guy just tightened up the choke...he got lucky that the robber wasn't using a weapon.

As for dirty street situations, why not carry and train in blade.

To answer the original question, I think ground fighting isn't overhyped, its overmarketed.

Everyone's doing it now...

[SamuraiGuy]

Is BJJ over-hyped . . . in some ways yes.

I'm a purple belt and I teach a few classes every week and work with some fairly decent fighters from time to time and the biggest issue I have is when a new fighter comes to class and tells me "I have a fight next week so I wanted to get in a few classes so my grappling will be ready" and yes I have had guys use that EXACT phrase.

hahahaha reminds me of this fat ass kid who came into the one of the no-gi submission wrestling classes at my school... as the brown belt in BJJ instructor told the class right after the warmup, that training in the Gi was paramount to grappling skill and success and that all thebest No-Gi guys and MMA fighters train in, or have trained alot in the gi.

After the speech the fat ass kid (who had to walk for the last five minutes of the warmup, and its like... 10-15 minutes) who I've never seen before, so he couldnt have had more than... 5 classes roughly... walks up to the brown belt and says... "do I really need to train with the gi, I'm really only doing this grappling stuff to supplement my MMA game".

Its kind of a running joke between me and the instructor and a few others.

God I hate morons.

[kiddbjj]

hey guys thanks for your replies to my Q

i think the Q may have been missinterpreted though

i am not questioning the effectiveness of ground styles rather i am questioning whether they are the most appropriate area to learn for everyday/street self defence

i guess its a question regarding strategy, if you are a ground guy your strategy involves getting the opponent on the ground for controls, then sub or strike. but is this a good option for the street i wonder (needing to take them to the ground to apply your game)?

wouldn't a strike and sprawl kind of strategy be more appropriate? that way your offence occurs whilst you and the other guy are on foot and doesnt neccessetate a takedown leaving you less mobile and open to third parties

comments

[BoarSpear]

Did you catch the article about the guy who sank in a guilotine on the bank robber? The robber tried to claw out his eyes - but the guy just tightened up the choke...he got lucky that the robber wasn't using a weapon.

Using the guy who went after a BANK robber with a guillotine to discuss MMA's viability in the street is like using the woman who told her rapist she was" too busy right now but could get together later" and gave him a number to prove how effective her "system" would be in the street.

Yes some dumbass tried it on a BIGGER dumbass and it worked, thats hardly the kind of evidence you want to build a self defense system around.

Surviving because of your opponents failure to do the NORMAL thing in a situation isn't a strategy that is going to work out well should you encounter a capable opponent. This is an example of doing everything wrong and still surviving, that doesn't validate the action in any way shape or form.

[Oraenor]

Did you catch the article about the guy who sank in a guilotine on the bank robber? The robber tried to claw out his eyes - but the guy just tightened up the choke...he got lucky that the robber wasn't using a weapon.

As for dirty street situations, why not carry and train in blade.

To answer the original question, I think ground fighting isn't overhyped, its overmarketed.

Everyone's doing it now...

Like you said, lucky he wasnt using a weapon. Ground fighting arts are not as great as people have hyped and have afew vunerability than striking arts. One is weapons, two is biting, three is groin vunerability and four is getting blows dealt towards you first. I am not stating striking arts are better but striking arts are better day to day situations since most fights are a flurry of hits and flee.

In street situations, it is illegal in atleast my country(Australia) to carry a concealed weapon, let alone use one. Since muggers work in pairs or more, your better off hitting them than to wrestle with one.

Now for the real question, BJJ is over hyped due to the gracies success in the UFC. People must realise also that the UFC has become a sport, and NOT real street situation and the boast of it's effectiveness in the UFC has little to do with real life street combat. I know guys that say they want to learn BJJ because they think they will become invincible like a gracie with no fight experience and that is a dangerous trend, very much like the Bruce Lee era.

I know alot of people on these forums are BJJ practitioners and pro BJJ supporters but what I dislike about these people is that they tend to say that "this is the way" of fighting and a real MMA has to have MT and BJJ etc. and recommending new comers that this is the only way while other fighting methods are inferior.

[WildWest.]

hey all

serious question, i'm not trolling.
in your opinion "is ground fighting overhyped for everyday self defence"?

i do bjj myself, i'm a blue belt so i have some experience in ground styles, but it seems to me that bjj is overhyped for everyday defence.

i mean if its a purely one on one situation with no weapons then its great but lets be honest most self defence situations in reality involve either weapons, multiple opponents or both.

im starting to think that maybe a strike and sprawl style would be better suited for everyday self defence, eg. mt with a little wrestling

from my experience it seems that beyond a blue belt level in bjj the techniques become far more sportbjj oriented and very 'technical', whereas the techniques up to blue are more the fundamental and ready to use techniques. as you can see in the ufc most of the submissions are good old arm bars triangles and rear naked chokes, beginners stuff really. and as soon as you add the striking element to the ground the majority of the sportbjj stuff goes out the window.

just my thoughts what do you think? my emphasis is not one on one match fighting but stuff for self protection.

The following article is written by Senshido Instructor Marc Ste. Marie AKA the Malevolent Preacher

REALITY BITES... HARD.


Routine… same ol’ boring crap… Get up, get dressed, eat breakfast, fight with the wife over something insignificant, hop on a train… 12 hours of your life elapses… work… and for the life of you, you don’t have a clue what you have accomplished in the grand scheme of things.

Your footsteps echo like a cerebral metronome regulating the flow of thoughts invading your mind. Drifting through all the clutter like the “flying Dutchman”, you mechanically set a course for home oblivious to your surroundings… and of course, don’t notice a pair of dirt bags on a parallel course with you until they rudely block your path, demanding something you probably don’t have or don’t want to give.

Funny… actually NOT funny… well, you know what I mean. Funny how your metabolism goes from 0 to 60 in a tenth of a second. From insensitive torpor to feeling like your nerve endings are crackling like live wires. "I’m sorry, I didn’t get that…” sounds like the thing to say, but somehow, I felt like there was no acceptable answer for those lads. “I don’t need this crap” rings in my head; I sidestep and take my leave right? Wrong. Step left, step right, your stepping in it, ankle deep. Adrenaline starts to drip at an ever-increasing rate leaving you with the taste of ashes in your mouth, Jell-O legs and the feeling your lunch is on its way.

“Alright, what do you want?” Simple question… who would expect a fist across the face for an answer? Apparently, I didn’t. Crack! I’m down, fireworks in my head and coals burning in my jaw. Get up, c’mon” the little voice inside my head says… easier said than done. Performing a drunken jig, I make it up, gather my thoughts. It is so damn fuzzy… shadows are dancing around me, pain is on the way. Like a moron, I pat my pockets. Really, maybe I can hand them money… right? Wrong. All I can come up with is a stupid pen."You guys take checks?” Here comes the big shadow… In goes the pen… Out comes the scream. "Fuuuuuuuuuuuucccckkkkkk, my eye, my fucking eye, my eye!!!”. You get the picture.

I stumble away, still groggy, a voice screams at me… don’t ask why, I don’t look back, maybe I only hope I hear one voice. Wishing distance between my lone pursuer and me hopefully lone, my right thigh seizes, the baseball bat probably had something to do with it. I whirl around. Suddenly my wife does not piss me off anymore, I want to hold her tell her that I don’t want to fight anymore… so many things are unsaid. But hey! Life dealt me a shitty hand right now. I look at those two, yes two mutts; reality sets in, and, I reflexively drop in a stance, desperate. Can’t say it’s a fighting stance but the stance of a man who wants to go home, the stance of someone who’s brain has numbed the pain centers and has accepted his faith… Crack, the goddamn bat again, my arm is broken… Shit…. There are instants in a man’s life where his pain becomes his fuel, the whip that drives him. I wish I could describe what happened next, but all I can remember swims in a haze. Metal flashed, bodies tangled. "I’m coming home baby…” All I can remember is kneeling on someone’s chest and pounding him, using my broken arm as a club. I lost it bad. They are lying there inanimate like grotesque puppets. I wished they’d move, I could pound them again. I’m in a different fight now. I’ve picked up this brick and I’m battling the urge, I have to turn them into dog meat.

What kept my hand? Hell if I know. The Spartans use to say that the mind accesses “rooms” where there is no mercy, no quarter while in combat… to later pull back in rooms where love and decency dwell. Well, shit, something busted me out of room number one… what? You tell me smart-ass.

So, the worst is over? Nope, my body allows the pain to creep back… It’s awful man I need help. Everything is closed; I catch a glimpse of myself in a window… Lopsided and pathetic, a real Dickens character. Two thousand dollars worth of designer clothing and I look like the “artful dodger” yes I read Oliver Twist…. A few more excruciating steps bring me to Tim Horton’s, twenty four-hour donut and coffee joint, and hopefully a phone I can use. I’m so happy I’m weeping.

I approach the nice lady at the counter and ask for help. My jaw is badly dislocated and although I want to say: “Can I call my wife, I’ve been mugged”, all that comes out is spittle, blood and grunts. The concerned cook comes out with a pipe and tells me to get “the **** out of there”. I pass out.

So… why do I write this? My arm ‘s healing… slowly, my jaw is back in place thanks to a surgery (I look like Frankenfiuckinstein) and my wife still drives me nuts. I know I should feel good but I don’t. I feel like crap. I hate those punks. They brought the worst out of me, they made me lose my humanity for a few fleeting moments, the elation I felt after thrashing them is not something a decent human being feels like. On top of it, they are suing me! Now I wish I’d switched them off… well not really… I don’t know anymore… The head shrinker told me to put it all on paper; he said it would help me… it doesn’t.

Marc Ste, Marie (MP)


The above story is a pretty accurate description of surviving real violence. No Bullshit stories of how a secret Russian combative technique was used, no crap about flying arm bars or extreme detail about every techniques used or angles appropriated, just the reality of being caught off guard at the wrong moment. Why? Because unlike a NHB event a self defense situation presents a different perspective:

There are no weapons in NHB events. Your opponent won’t pull out a knife in the middle of your bout and start gutting you with it. He won’t crack your arm with a baseball bat. He won’t break a beer bottle and try to severe your jugular with it. He won’t pull out a gun and shoot you with it.

There are no multiple attackers in NHB events. Your opponent’s friend won’t jump in and kick you in the head while you have your opponent in your guard for 10 minutes. His friends won’t jump in and smash a bottle or crow bar against your skull in the ring or octagon. You don’t have to worry about being blindsided.

You fight in a controlled environment in NHB events. You don’t grapple on gravel or broken glass or cement in NHB events. You don’t have to worry about a slippery or icy surface in NHB events. You don’t have to worry about knee high snow or its suffocating you while in the guard for 10 minutes in NHB events. You don’t have to worry about blizzards, rain, winds or low visibility in the ring or octagon. You’re not in a train, staircase, elevator, subway in a MMA fight therefor you have no worries about falling into subway/metro tracks. You don’t have to worry about being pushed through a plate glass window and get disfigured by broken glass or get tossed off a balcony of a 10-story building.

Your clothing and variables won’t limit you in NHB events. You’re not wearing a suit and tie or skirt and heels in MMA. You’re not wearing winter boots, gloves and a 3-quarter winter jacket in the ring or octagon. You’re not carrying your 10-month-old baby in your arms while fighting in NHB events. You’re wife or mother isn’t next to you while fighting in NHB events.

Your health isn’t an issue in NHB events. You don’t compete if you have a flu or fever or sickness when fighting in the ring or octagon. You don’t compete and fight if you have a sprained ankle, broken wrist or bad back in NHB events.

Your state of being isn’t an issue in NHB events. You won’t compete if you only had 4 hours sleep per night over the last 3 days due to a hectic work schedule. You won’t compete if you had too much to drink with some buddies to kick back after a long workweek.

Your opponent is not jacked on Heroin, Morphine, Cocaine, Crack or any other substance while fighting in NHB events. Or… maybe he is actually. Are they drug testing in MMA?

You know your opponent and what style of fighting he trains in before the fight and can therefor prepare for him weeks or months in advance.

You know when, what time and where you are going to fight in advance and can train, eat, sleep and supplement accordingly prior to the fight, you even have the luxury of warming up before the fight.

You can tap out, the ref can stop the fight or your corner can throw in the towel in an NHB fight.

We can see the difference; can you see the difference?

Please... Train intelligently and diligently.

Richard Dimitri

[BoarSpear]

The following article is written by Senshido Instructor Marc Ste. Marie AKA the Malevolent Preacher

REALITY BITES... HARD.


Routine… same ol’ boring crap… Get up, get dressed, eat breakfast, fight with the wife over something insignificant, hop on a train… 12 hours of your life elapses… work… and for the life of you, you don’t have a clue what you have accomplished in the grand scheme of things.

Your footsteps echo like a cerebral metronome regulating the flow of thoughts invading your mind. Drifting through all the clutter like the “flying Dutchman”, you mechanically set a course for home oblivious to your surroundings… and of course, don’t notice a pair of dirt bags on a parallel course with you until they rudely block your path, demanding something you probably don’t have or don’t want to give.

Funny… actually NOT funny… well, you know what I mean. Funny how your metabolism goes from 0 to 60 in a tenth of a second. From insensitive torpor to feeling like your nerve endings are crackling like live wires. "I’m sorry, I didn’t get that…” sounds like the thing to say, but somehow, I felt like there was no acceptable answer for those lads. “I don’t need this crap” rings in my head; I sidestep and take my leave right? Wrong. Step left, step right, your stepping in it, ankle deep. Adrenaline starts to drip at an ever-increasing rate leaving you with the taste of ashes in your mouth, Jell-O legs and the feeling your lunch is on its way.

“Alright, what do you want?” Simple question… who would expect a fist across the face for an answer? Apparently, I didn’t. Crack! I’m down, fireworks in my head and coals burning in my jaw. Get up, c’mon” the little voice inside my head says… easier said than done. Performing a drunken jig, I make it up, gather my thoughts. It is so damn fuzzy… shadows are dancing around me, pain is on the way. Like a moron, I pat my pockets. Really, maybe I can hand them money… right? Wrong. All I can come up with is a stupid pen."You guys take checks?” Here comes the big shadow… In goes the pen… Out comes the scream. "Fuuuuuuuuuuuucccckkkkkk, my eye, my fucking eye, my eye!!!”. You get the picture.

I stumble away, still groggy, a voice screams at me… don’t ask why, I don’t look back, maybe I only hope I hear one voice. Wishing distance between my lone pursuer and me hopefully lone, my right thigh seizes, the baseball bat probably had something to do with it. I whirl around. Suddenly my wife does not piss me off anymore, I want to hold her tell her that I don’t want to fight anymore… so many things are unsaid. But hey! Life dealt me a shitty hand right now. I look at those two, yes two mutts; reality sets in, and, I reflexively drop in a stance, desperate. Can’t say it’s a fighting stance but the stance of a man who wants to go home, the stance of someone who’s brain has numbed the pain centers and has accepted his faith… Crack, the goddamn bat again, my arm is broken… Shit…. There are instants in a man’s life where his pain becomes his fuel, the whip that drives him. I wish I could describe what happened next, but all I can remember swims in a haze. Metal flashed, bodies tangled. "I’m coming home baby…” All I can remember is kneeling on someone’s chest and pounding him, using my broken arm as a club. I lost it bad. They are lying there inanimate like grotesque puppets. I wished they’d move, I could pound them again. I’m in a different fight now. I’ve picked up this brick and I’m battling the urge, I have to turn them into dog meat.

What kept my hand? Hell if I know. The Spartans use to say that the mind accesses “rooms” where there is no mercy, no quarter while in combat… to later pull back in rooms where love and decency dwell. Well, shit, something busted me out of room number one… what? You tell me smart-ass.

So, the worst is over? Nope, my body allows the pain to creep back… It’s awful man I need help. Everything is closed; I catch a glimpse of myself in a window… Lopsided and pathetic, a real Dickens character. Two thousand dollars worth of designer clothing and I look like the “artful dodger” yes I read Oliver Twist…. A few more excruciating steps bring me to Tim Horton’s, twenty four-hour donut and coffee joint, and hopefully a phone I can use. I’m so happy I’m weeping.

I approach the nice lady at the counter and ask for help. My jaw is badly dislocated and although I want to say: “Can I call my wife, I’ve been mugged”, all that comes out is spittle, blood and grunts. The concerned cook comes out with a pipe and tells me to get “the **** out of there”. I pass out.

So… why do I write this? My arm ‘s healing… slowly, my jaw is back in place thanks to a surgery (I look like Frankenfiuckinstein) and my wife still drives me nuts. I know I should feel good but I don’t. I feel like crap. I hate those punks. They brought the worst out of me, they made me lose my humanity for a few fleeting moments, the elation I felt after thrashing them is not something a decent human being feels like. On top of it, they are suing me! Now I wish I’d switched them off… well not really… I don’t know anymore… The head shrinker told me to put it all on paper; he said it would help me… it doesn’t.

Marc Ste, Marie (MP)


The above story is a pretty accurate description of surviving real violence. No Bullshit stories of how a secret Russian combative technique was used, no crap about flying arm bars or extreme detail about every techniques used or angles appropriated, just the reality of being caught off guard at the wrong moment. Why? Because unlike a NHB event a self defense situation presents a different perspective:

There are no weapons in NHB events. Your opponent won’t pull out a knife in the middle of your bout and start gutting you with it. He won’t crack your arm with a baseball bat. He won’t break a beer bottle and try to severe your jugular with it. He won’t pull out a gun and shoot you with it.

There are no multiple attackers in NHB events. Your opponent’s friend won’t jump in and kick you in the head while you have your opponent in your guard for 10 minutes. His friends won’t jump in and smash a bottle or crow bar against your skull in the ring or octagon. You don’t have to worry about being blindsided.

You fight in a controlled environment in NHB events. You don’t grapple on gravel or broken glass or cement in NHB events. You don’t have to worry about a slippery or icy surface in NHB events. You don’t have to worry about knee high snow or its suffocating you while in the guard for 10 minutes in NHB events. You don’t have to worry about blizzards, rain, winds or low visibility in the ring or octagon. You’re not in a train, staircase, elevator, subway in a MMA fight therefor you have no worries about falling into subway/metro tracks. You don’t have to worry about being pushed through a plate glass window and get disfigured by broken glass or get tossed off a balcony of a 10-story building.

Your clothing and variables won’t limit you in NHB events. You’re not wearing a suit and tie or skirt and heels in MMA. You’re not wearing winter boots, gloves and a 3-quarter winter jacket in the ring or octagon. You’re not carrying your 10-month-old baby in your arms while fighting in NHB events. You’re wife or mother isn’t next to you while fighting in NHB events.

Your health isn’t an issue in NHB events. You don’t compete if you have a flu or fever or sickness when fighting in the ring or octagon. You don’t compete and fight if you have a sprained ankle, broken wrist or bad back in NHB events.

Your state of being isn’t an issue in NHB events. You won’t compete if you only had 4 hours sleep per night over the last 3 days due to a hectic work schedule. You won’t compete if you had too much to drink with some buddies to kick back after a long workweek.

Your opponent is not jacked on Heroin, Morphine, Cocaine, Crack or any other substance while fighting in NHB events. Or… maybe he is actually. Are they drug testing in MMA?

You know your opponent and what style of fighting he trains in before the fight and can therefor prepare for him weeks or months in advance.

You know when, what time and where you are going to fight in advance and can train, eat, sleep and supplement accordingly prior to the fight, you even have the luxury of warming up before the fight.

You can tap out, the ref can stop the fight or your corner can throw in the towel in an NHB fight.

We can see the difference; can you see the difference?

Please... Train intelligently and diligently.

Richard Dimitri

Excellent post!!

[WildWest.]

I realise my previous post was a bit long and slightly off topic/thread (I apologise if this should be in the Urban Combatives Forum), but I wanted it to be used as an example of the differences between MMA/BJJ and RBSD.

Please bear in mind I have nothing against BJJ, or any style for that matter, so don't take it as a criticism towards it.

KiddBjj.
If your MAIN focus for doing BJJ is self defence, then you are probably barking up the wrong tree. As a ground based fighting system it is awesome and yes, plenty of techniques, attributes, skills, conditioning and abilities you learn from it will help you in a self defence situation. But, personal opinion here, where it falls short is in it's rules/sport based environment and I'll explain from a personal experience.

Being a Hapkido and MT practitioner myself, I have programmed myself to grab at fingers, stick thumbs in eyes and twist heads to name but a few techniques. I also like to punch/elbow/knee/kick as fast as often as I can from wherever i.e the ground or stand up. In a bit of a personal experiment, I rolled with some BJJ guys at the club attached to our MT club and found out BJJ's limitations first hand.

In BJJ these "dirty/dangerous" techniques are not allowed and yet are essential techniques should someone big, strong and aggressive tries to fight you on the ground. Being that most of the club I trained with is made up of large Samoans, Tongans, Maori's and other Pacific Islanders (I am a lot smaller), I found that without these techniques (including striking) I was pretty much defenceless. Maybe I just don't know BJJ properly enough (or I just sucked!!), but RBSD should be at least 3 things: Simple, fast and aggressive.

Is BJJ simple?? Not really as it takes a long time to become truly proficient in it.

Is BJJ fast?? It can be. The takedowns can be quick and combined with some effective striking you can finish someone during the ads of your favourite TV program. Chokes can also be applied quickly, but it does involve a bit of work still but at least they are fight stoppers. Arm bars and locks while useful and painful may not necessarily stop someone on drugs or someone who is just a plain ol mad bastard.

Is BJJ aggressive?? I would say yes it can be very aggressive. The problem here is that if you aren't programmed to get down and use dirty techniques then the chances of you using them for real are slim to none.

I am not an authority on either BJJ or RBSD, but am just sharing my opinions on your original post. They are not right or wrong, and neither is anybody else's, but hopefully I've got the message across about the difference between sport MA's and RBSD MA's.

Please no-one post back accusing me of criticising sport MA's or insinuate that I think they suck for street combat because they don't. I am just trying to demonstrate the differences, besides threads comparing the 2 have been overdone far too many times already.

[Motion]

I don't think groundfighting is overhyped especially the escape techniques,which I think will be the most useful in a real situation. How many real fights have you seen where one fighter got the other mounted or in a headlock standing or on the ground and the other fighter couldn't escape? That's where grappling escapes would come in.

[Blue Wave Gym]

[B]The following article is written by Senshido Instructor Marc Ste, Marie (MP)

The above story is a pretty accurate description of surviving real violence. No Bullshit stories of how a secret Russian combative technique was used, no crap about flying arm bars or extreme detail about every techniques used or angles appropriated, just the reality of being caught off guard at the wrong moment. Why? Because unlike a NHB event a self defense situation presents a different perspective:

There are no weapons in NHB events. Your opponent won’t pull out a knife in the middle of your bout and start gutting you with it. He won’t crack your arm with a baseball bat. He won’t break a beer bottle and try to severe your jugular with it. He won’t pull out a gun and shoot you with it.

There are no multiple attackers in NHB events. Your opponent’s friend won’t jump in and kick you in the head while you have your opponent in your guard for 10 minutes. His friends won’t jump in and smash a bottle or crow bar against your skull in the ring or octagon. You don’t have to worry about being blindsided.

You fight in a controlled environment in NHB events. You don’t grapple on gravel or broken glass or cement in NHB events. You don’t have to worry about a slippery or icy surface in NHB events. You don’t have to worry about knee high snow or its suffocating you while in the guard for 10 minutes in NHB events. You don’t have to worry about blizzards, rain, winds or low visibility in the ring or octagon. You’re not in a train, staircase, elevator, subway in a MMA fight therefor you have no worries about falling into subway/metro tracks. You don’t have to worry about being pushed through a plate glass window and get disfigured by broken glass or get tossed off a balcony of a 10-story building.

Your clothing and variables won’t limit you in NHB events. You’re not wearing a suit and tie or skirt and heels in MMA. You’re not wearing winter boots, gloves and a 3-quarter winter jacket in the ring or octagon. You’re not carrying your 10-month-old baby in your arms while fighting in NHB events. You’re wife or mother isn’t next to you while fighting in NHB events.

Your health isn’t an issue in NHB events. You don’t compete if you have a flu or fever or sickness when fighting in the ring or octagon. You don’t compete and fight if you have a sprained ankle, broken wrist or bad back in NHB events.

Your state of being isn’t an issue in NHB events. You won’t compete if you only had 4 hours sleep per night over the last 3 days due to a hectic work schedule. You won’t compete if you had too much to drink with some buddies to kick back after a long workweek.

Your opponent is not jacked on Heroin, Morphine, Cocaine, Crack or any other substance while fighting in NHB events. Or… maybe he is actually. Are they drug testing in MMA?

You know your opponent and what style of fighting he trains in before the fight and can therefor prepare for him weeks or months in advance.

You know when, what time and where you are going to fight in advance and can train, eat, sleep and supplement accordingly prior to the fight, you even have the luxury of warming up before the fight.

You can tap out, the ref can stop the fight or your corner can throw in the towel in an NHB fight.

We can see the difference; can you see the difference?

Please... Train intelligently and diligently.

Richard Dimitri

ok there's a point here and also a complete lack of understanding of what fighitn in a ring is all about and other fighters will know waht I'm talikng about so have at it guys.