who stands a better chance?

[kiddbjj]

ok so the other day i was thinking about all these people training in non-combat sport type styless, ie. NOT bjj, judo, boxing, muay thai, wrestling, shooto, etc.

rather

the other stuff like aikido, jap ju jits, hapkido, tkd etc. All these people generally believe or are told they are training for self defence but generally what they are taught is quite crappy compared to the combat sports as mentioned above.

SO, then I thought about people from physically challenging sports like football, ice hockey, high level tennis, sprinters, athletes in explosive track and field sports, good soccer guys, powerlifters and weight lifters, fitness buffs with no particular sport but who are strong explosive and have good anaerobic capacity, extremers like ramp bmx or blading etc. and i begin to think that i would probably back most of these people in a fight against people from the non-combat sport list.

WHY? Well because they are used to training at high intensity and dealing with the pain and mental strain that that entails, they would be disciplined and able to cope with high pressure competative situations, they would probably train daily in an variety of modalities like stretching, gym, skill work, cardio etc, they would be seasoned competitors and not easily psyched out, they would be very confident of their physicaly abilities, and overall they would be used to fighting through pain and not quitting in the face of adversity.

SO, who would you back?

[DickHardman]

you cant really judge people and assume things about them like that.


a tiny soccer mom may just be able to kill you with her bare hands if she fears for her childrens safety and her adrenaline is pumping. that big football player may look pretty big and tough, but may turn into a complete pussy once he gets hit because he is not used to it. that little prissy tennis guy may just have one of the worst tempers you have ever come across and he ends up breaking his racket over your head. you never know what kinda shit is going on inside someones head, and you never know what they know or dont know, and or what they intend to do or not do. also depends on the time and place.

i say dont worry too much about all these other people or who is the toughest, just try to be the best you can be and dont ever compare yourself to anyone else.

btw, there are plenty of non sport martial artists that are tough as hell and could kick the ass of hardcore athletes, combat/sports guys.

its all like rock, paper, scissor bro.

[kiddbjj]

"back somebody"

ie. who would you tip to win, who would you expect to win

[WildWest.]

All this post shows is the ignorant, arrogant, inexperienced and misinformed attitudes of some of you MMA/BJJ type practitioners.

There are plenty of valid self defence techniques and training methods employed by the traditional MA's. And a lot of clubs regularly test their students techniques under pressure to ensure they know what works and what doesn't work for them. To assume that because they don't compete regularly they aren't as good as someone whose a powerlifter or football player is a totally outrageous, and incorrect, assumption.

Many countries around the world employ the techniques from a range of traditional MA's such as Japanese Jiujutsu, Hapkido and Aikido, for their military and law enforcement personnel. I met an ex SAS man who told me they used to train in Aikido and I think I would back him in a fight.

Have you ever trained with someone who has done a contact sport and then moved into a sport MA??? I have at MT and boxing where a lot of ex and current rugby players and weightlifting types will come along and have a go. I can tell you they are just as uncoordinated as any other beginner and by no means do they necessarily have the abilities to know what to do in a violent confrontation.

Dickhardman said it when he mentioned you don't know what someone elses mental state is like or what they know.

No offence, but this thread topic is a joke.

[LoneHusky]

yeah, milfhunter's right.

[jubaji]

All this post shows is the ignorant, arrogant, inexperienced and misinformed attitudes of some of you MMA/BJJ type practitioners.

There are plenty of valid self defence techniques and training methods employed by the traditional MA's. And a lot of clubs regularly test their students techniques under pressure to ensure they know what works and what doesn't work for them. To assume that because they don't compete regularly they aren't as good as someone whose a powerlifter or football player is a totally outrageous, and incorrect, assumption.

Many countries around the world employ the techniques from a range of traditional MA's such as Japanese Jiujutsu, Hapkido and Aikido, for their military and law enforcement personnel. I met an ex SAS man who told me they used to train in Aikido and I think I would back him in a fight.

Have you ever trained with someone who has done a contact sport and then moved into a sport MA??? I have at MT and boxing where a lot of ex and current rugby players and weightlifting types will come along and have a go. I can tell you they are just as uncoordinated as any other beginner and by no means do they necessarily have the abilities to know what to do in a violent confrontation.

Dickhardman said it when he mentioned you don't know what someone elses mental state is like or what they know.

No offence, but this thread topic is a joke.

Oh, somebody's waaaay too defensive.

[Tom Yum]

Have you ever trained with someone who has done a contact sport and then moved into a sport MA??? I have at MT and boxing where a lot of ex and current rugby players and weightlifting types will come along and have a go. I can tell you they are just as uncoordinated as any other beginner and by no means do they necessarily have the abilities to know what to do in a violent confrontation.

What I've found is that contact sports guys pick up combat sports a little faster than your average, non-athletic Joe.

They are more aggressive and less afraid of contact.

They are already decently fit, strong and more comfortable with movement (i.e. balance, start-stop strength).

They are not afraid to exert their will, not afraid to fight.

I've trained just long enough in combat sports to see this.

Need a popular example?

Bob Sapp.

[Sagacious Lu]

I have at MT and boxing where a lot of ex and current rugby players and weightlifting types will come along and have a go. I can tell you they are just as uncoordinated as any other beginner and by no means do they necessarily have the abilities to know what to do in a violent confrontation.

I really wonder if you've ever met a half-way decent rugby player in your life. No, rugby will not prepare you to box against a trained boxer but it for damn sure wiil give you the strength, aggresion and skills to throw someone on the ground and stomp the shit out of them.

[Blue Wave Gym]

good post

ok so the other day i was thinking about all these people training in non-combat sport type styless, ie. NOT bjj, judo, boxing, muay thai, wrestling, shooto, etc.

rather

the other stuff like aikido, jap ju jits, hapkido, tkd etc. All these people generally believe or are told they are training for self defence but generally what they are taught is quite crappy compared to the combat sports as mentioned above.

SO, then I thought about people from physically challenging sports like football, ice hockey, high level tennis, sprinters, athletes in explosive track and field sports, good soccer guys, powerlifters and weight lifters, fitness buffs with no particular sport but who are strong explosive and have good anaerobic capacity, extremers like ramp bmx or blading etc. and i begin to think that i would probably back most of these people in a fight against people from the non-combat sport list.

WHY? Well because they are used to training at high intensity and dealing with the pain and mental strain that that entails, they would be disciplined and able to cope with high pressure competative situations, they would probably train daily in an variety of modalities like stretching, gym, skill work, cardio etc, they would be seasoned competitors and not easily psyched out, they would be very confident of their physicaly abilities, and overall they would be used to fighting through pain and not quitting in the face of adversity.

SO, who would you back?

First oylimpic style tkd is a combat sport the matches are full contact and I've seen plenty of ko's, ko'ed a guy myself.I would not lump jjj in with hapkido or akido, I did hapkido as part of tkd and have done akido as well as jjj. The biggest difference between tma and sports combat is that many tma styles don't use the aliveness concept in training that's why sports combat has an advantage. However if they did then they would have an advantage over the athlets except for football players and hockey players who both use ma in their sports. Fb guys throw peole around and hockey players get into fist fights can someone say dirty boxing lol. That's just my two cents
BTw thanhks for posting something that requires thought in here it's been pretty boring lately.

[SamuraiGuy]

I really wonder if you've ever met a half-way decent rugby player in your life. No, rugby will not prepare you to box against a trained boxer but it for damn sure wiil give you the strength, aggresion and skills to throw someone on the ground and stomp the shit out of them.

Amen to that, I've had more trouble tapping out a provincial level rugby player (its canada so province = state pretty much) than a provincial level wrestler.

Both very good at waht they do, but the wrestler took me far less time, now the Rugby player kinda just grabbed me and tried to rip my head off, but it takes longer. Both of these I've done while drunk and sober.

I even got the rugby player to come out to judo too, once.

It's all in the mindset, I'd give rugby players and those types of players the edge usually, they get a certain toughness, heart, etc from the sport they play.

It's just like the whole idea of farmer strength, I gaurantee in a real fight a farmer, or a construction worker is gonna give you far more trouble than a guy with a year in boxing, or karate, or tkd, or whatever.

[Tom Yum]

It's all in the mindset, I'd give rugby players and those types of players the edge usually, they get a certain toughness, heart, etc from the sport they play..

Yes. I competely agree. To add to it, the point of Rugby is to f**k up your opponent, allbeit more based on aggression. That's the mindset! Not many people want to play rugby for that reason....

To answer the question would a TMA-ist be able to handle a contact athlete?

It boils down to the attributes of both. The TMA-ist is going to lose some of his ability to pull off some of his fancy maneuvers against a strong and aggressive opponent. If he's spent his last 2-3 belt promotions perfecting 6-step takedowns with fine motor skills, he's probably gonna get a rude awakening...

If the guy is the real-deal, I'll give it to the TMA dude. If not, I'd give it to the contact athlete.

[Tom Yum]

Little Known Match...

Bill Kazmaier (a pioneer in powerlifting) squared off against Johan Vos (ownder and founder of Vos gym in Holland) in the early 90's. The event aired on Dutch T.V.

Vos is no small man, but not nearly as strong as Kazmaier, whom is known for a 600-lb bench press and 1,000-lb squat. The match did not allow punches to the face, but everything else was legal.

Kazmaier made some aggressive attempts to manhandle Vos, but Vos pulled out every time and was able to counter all of Kazmaier's attempt to get top position on the ground. Vos landed 3-4 consecutive Thai kicks to Kazmaier's knee (not thigh) and Kazmaier said "no more!" as he required help leaving the ring.

On another note, look at Bob Sapp vs. Ernesto Hoost. Hoost was a K-1 Champ! Sapp rocked Hoost early on in both fights. Hoost could have won as his kicks slowed Sapp, but got impatient and Sapp just tore him up in the corner.

[Hardball]

I'd go with the gat, I mean cat anytime. LOL

[WildWest.]

Well considering rugby is the national sport in NZ and I played it until I was 28 I would say I've come across, and played against, better rugby players than any of you in North America or Europe put together. I'm not trying to prove one-upmanship just a fact.

Tom, I agree with regarding the attributes. But I feel Bob Sapp is a poor example. Bob uses his size well and is powerful, but he has poor poor stamina, a limited skill set, dubious defence and gets his beans these days in the ring. But I understand the anology you are making.

[SamuraiGuy]

Well considering rugby is the national sport in NZ and I played it until I was 28 I would say I've come across, and played against, better rugby players than any of you in North America or Europe put together. I'm not trying to prove one-upmanship just a fact.

Tom, I agree with regarding the attributes. But I feel Bob Sapp is a poor example. Bob uses his size well and is powerful, but he has poor poor stamina, a limited skill set, dubious defence and gets his beans these days in the ring. But I understand the anology you are making.

I've got friends who've gone on tours of england and wales.... and they were the team that won....

Now if I remember the last world cup of rugby....