Talk about your style's punching methods

[Tom Yum]

I'm starting this thread to compare and contrast punching styles from across the board. And before we get started, lets keep it clean - no smack talking; let's keep the criticism constructive.

A punch is a punch, right? While almost every style throws punches, variances in stance, on-guard position and additional weapons available change the punches tactical delivery.

For example, a round house punch delivered from a style like Hung-gar or Choy Lay Fut gong fu can come from a deep, rooted stance and swing from a wide angle. The punch may seem slower, but will have a lot of torque behind it since it comes from a "longer" arm (remember physics?).

Boxers stand higher up, although slightly crouched (knees slightly bent). The hook is a shorter lever (arm bent at 90 degrees) than a round-house punch and by itself delivers less torque; however the boxer powers all of his punches from the legs and not just the hips and shoulders - so the hook could deliver just as much torque as the roundhouse, but as much if not more power since it is faster and more explosive.

Connecting the dots...

In short, the hook is a faster, more compact and explosive punch. With some good footwork and feinting, it can be used as a first strike. And since it is so explosive it will damage anything it hits.

The long-fist, round house punch may be a bit slower than the hook, a little less explosive and therefore easier to defend against if it is the first technique used, but in the heat an exchange, the punch becomes a block against straight punches if it crosses the center line.

If the gong-fu fighter has good reflexes and has developed his forearm/grip strength, he could also be in good position to seize an arm. Being in a deep stance, with a lower center of gravity, grappling would be favorable.

my 0.01 cent on punching from different styles.

[Jiu-fu fighter]

I have partaken in quite a few styles,

but the punching style and stance that I have kept the whole way is from the boxing I took.

1 foot lined up under stomach, the other back at a 45 , knees slightly bent, and my body tilting forward, arms in tight in front of my chest fists covering chin.

when I punch I start it from the foot , to the hips, to the shoulders, I tuck my chin into my arm when I throw it,

good power and good defense, but not really a good stance for trapping or other gung fu type techniques

[Blue Wave Gym]

good post Tom

I think most ma punching is a joke compared to boxing, boxing is smiply the best for punching, also trapping is a joke as well show me in a fight and I'll be quiet.

[Tom Yum]

I think most ma punching is a joke compared to boxing, boxing is smiply the best for punching, also trapping is a joke as well show me in a fight and I'll be quiet.

Boxing's techniques are all punches, so it makes sense that their punches are some of the best.

I've seen shotokan karate guys knock dudes out cold with one punch.

Again, its a different school of thought; shotokan emphasizes one punch knockout whereas boxing is about punches in bunches.

The first punch, may not knockout your opponent.

If he's bigger than you and you've got the fundamentals of a punch, it may stagger him or if he's significantly bigger it might only shake his head and make him take half a step back to keep his balance. If you try to trade, his punches are going to send you flying....

The stance you punch in, the position of your non punching hand and your center of gravity are going to effect your defense and your next move, right?

[Tom Yum]

Would someone care to talk about the punching methods of wing-chun?

I've never studied the art or one even close to it stylistically.

[Garland]

Would someone care to talk about the punching methods of wing-chun?

I've never studied the art or one even close to it stylistically.

this is only what I've been taught as part of a jun fan class...not 100% wing chun, but we did do the forms and some of the drills.

perhaps the most notable wing chun punch is the lin wan kuen or chain punch...which is essentially the same thing as the straight blast from JKD/Jun Fan....
vertical fist, fist down about a fist length away from the chest right dead center ending fist up with the elbow in about a fist length away from the chest right on centerline.

either one of these whilst trapping, or a bunch of these chained together.

I liked this explaination;
"The vertical punch is the most basic and fundamental in Wing Chun and is usually thrown with the elbow down and in front of the body. Depending on the lineage, the fist is held anywhere from vertical to horizontal (palm side up). The contact points also vary from the top two knuckles, to the middle two knuckles, to the bottom three knuckles. In some lineages of Wing Chun, the fist is swivelled at the wrist on point of impact so that the bottom three knuckles are thrust forward adding power to the punch while it is at maximum extension.
The punches may be thrown in quick succession in a 'straight blast' or 'chain punching'. When executed correctly, it can be used as a disorienting finisher but is often criticised for encouraging weaker punches that don't utilise the whole body."

[Tom Yum]

this is only what I've been taught as part of a jun fan class...not 100% wing chun, but we did do the forms and some of the drills.

perhaps the most notable wing chun punch is the lin wan kuen or chain punch...which is essentially the same thing as the straight blast from JKD/Jun Fan....
vertical fist, fist down about a fist length away from the chest right dead center ending fist up with the elbow in about a fist length away from the chest right on centerline.

either one of these whilst trapping, or a bunch of these chained together.

I liked this explaination;
"The vertical punch is the most basic and fundamental in Wing Chun and is usually thrown with the elbow down and in front of the body. Depending on the lineage, the fist is held anywhere from vertical to horizontal (palm side up). The contact points also vary from the top two knuckles, to the middle two knuckles, to the bottom three knuckles. In some lineages of Wing Chun, the fist is swivelled at the wrist on point of impact so that the bottom three knuckles are thrust forward adding power to the punch while it is at maximum extension.
The punches may be thrown in quick succession in a 'straight blast' or 'chain punching'. When executed correctly, it can be used as a disorienting finisher but is often criticised for encouraging weaker punches that don't utilise the whole body."

Thank you. Good description and critique as well.

Its interesting that you brought up Junfan/JKD. Bruce used the chain punch/straight blast in sparring - which means he actually put the punch to the test and could speak realistically about its results.

[Blue Wave Gym]

Yes Tom

Boxing's techniques are all punches, so it makes sense that their punches are some of the best.

I've seen shotokan karate guys knock dudes out cold with one punch.

Again, its a different school of thought; shotokan emphasizes one punch knockout whereas boxing is about punches in bunches.

The first punch, may not knockout your opponent.

If he's bigger than you and you've got the fundamentals of a punch, it may stagger him or if he's significantly bigger it might only shake his head and make him take half a step back to keep his balance. If you try to trade, his punches are going to send you flying....

The stance you punch in, the position of your non punching hand and your center of gravity are going to effect your defense and your next move, right?

My point is simple boxers, kb and mt people have the best stance for punching punching from a horse frony back or any othey stance is pointless even punching from a karate of tkd fighting stance is beter than that also thik how many kung fu/karate styles foucs on punching but suck at them compared to boxers,mt and kb people. Again the proof is in the pudding, I'm notsaying they can't punch just that thay are not in the same league. i think their punching methods are simply not in the same leagues as boxers if the were why would american kb peole learn to box is not a karate punch sufficiet. This remind me of a commet evenade hoilyfield made abouy mma punches while wathces the ifl that they don't use thier legs to set the punch which is undeerstandable due to the other things that come into play but chuck liddleele is a good example of a mma guy who uses his legs to set punches due to his kb background. Chinese boxing ha!

[Jiu-fu fighter]

in shotokan, we use our own power to make our power stronger. so you work with what you have and if you have good speed and technique, you can create more power than what you have. i cant really explain alot but the pullback arm is for power. if you pull it back at the same time as the punch and focus then it will be strong. i dont like that punching for sparring or self defence though.

Yes , chambering a punch while throwing one, does give a considerable bit of added power,

and standing in a good wide horse stance and throwing them is a good conditioning technique, I do this sometimes

but for selfdefense or a scrap....lol
you are gonna get clocked real damn fast!!
do you wonder why boxers keep their hands up.... well after your first knockout you will understand... ( and I mean you being the one getting clocked )

[Garland]

What I'd be interested in hearing are different hand strikes from the FMA's and silat. I know some of these arts rely mostly on open hand slaps and gouges...but there are those like yaw yan and panatucan boxing that use similar punches to western boxing. (I've even heard it said that modern boxing was highly influenced by the Filipino community introducing panatucan style punches where they turned the fist over horizontally on punching and fired from up top like modern boxers, instead of the old pre-Marquis of Queensbury fisticuffs dudes...I don't know if I buy this story entirely, but it was an interesting one.)

I also know that dumogueros (sp?) use hammer fists...but that's groundfighting.

So much history, it's hard if not impossible to give a certain etiology or origin to the changing of techinques because everyone lays claim to them.

[Troll Virus]

Would someone care to talk about the punching methods of wing-chun?

I've never studied the art or one even close to it stylistically.

Garland went on to give you a good description of the vertical punch in WC.
I'd add a few things though if I may;

Firstly, the Vertical punch can be found in many styles of Karate.
I was surprised at first, but it made sense later, when I looked at the proximity of Southern Chinese systems to those of Japan.
Isshin Ryu certainly uses a vertical punch and I've heard people from Shotokan and Wado Ryu mention it as well

Secondly, one major difference is in using the lower fist for this punch (using the knuckles of the pinkie, ring and middle finger as an impact area).
This has some odd applications not commonly found in boxing.
If you placed your palm over your solar plexus, then turned the fist forwards, you could drive the punch straight forwards towards the heart or solar plexus of your opponent using Fa Jing (explosive power).
In this, it is key that your elbow comes into the center, so it is behind the punch, rather than at an oblique.

The 'upper' fist is used for striking across, or down on an opponent.

The emphasis on the upper/lower fist is interesting.
You see the lower fist in boxing, but it's not obvious because of the gloves.
Good body hooks are delivered with the lower fist, as are upper cuts.
Mechanically there's better alignment with the muscles/tendons of the forearm for body hooks and uppercuts, though structurally, you have to watch out for the 'Boxers Fracture', where too much impact is made on the pinkie knuckle.

Ideally though, the human hand is a fragile thing, which doesn't take to hard impact well.
While clenching a fist and clouting someone with it is often the the thing we naturally find ourselves doing, palm heels, knees and elbows are the way to go if you want to hit anything solid without 16oz gloves on IMO.

[Tom Yum]

in shotokan, we use our own power to make our power stronger. so you work with what you have and if you have good speed and technique, you can create more power than what you have. i cant really explain alot but the pullback arm is for power. if you pull it back at the same time as the punch and focus then it will be strong. i dont like that punching for sparring or self defence though.

I think I understand what you mean.

You are saying that a Shotokan stylist will dedicate every bit of available body motion to contribute power to his punch i.e. you pull back with your non-punching hand to generate maximum torque in that punch.

The cost of adding that extra torque is the defensive cover used by boxers or certain gong-fu stylists to protect the ribs and head...I assume you use your punch sparringly and only when you are absolutely certain it will land.

[bigboywasim]

I take many styles including American Kenpo, Boxing and Muay Thia. I like to stick with the boxing for the most part when I am punching. The punches are simply fast and effective. In the inside I love the speed and power of the hand techniques found in Kenpo. There are many techniques in Kenpo that even other martial artists will not expect.

[Tom Yum]

Why horse stance?

I think TMA's have legitimate punching techniques. They get used frequently in sparring and sometimes in self-defense (for visuals, check out youtube).

What gets me is why TMA's train beginner to throw strikes from the horse stance?

The responses I've gotten from different instructors:

1. If a MA-ist can throw a punch from a deep horse stance, then he can throw an even more powerful punch while in other fighting stance.

I'm going to have to disagree here. IMHO, the best way to throw punches is from the stance you will be fighting in, whether it be the crouched-on-guard position in western boxing, the upright stance from muaythai or the variations of the side stance in shotokan karate, choy lay fut or tang soo do.

Each time you practice a punch or strike, you engrain your body's stance and position into a neuromuscular pathway.

Why not work on throwing punches from the stance you will be fighting in?

2. Horse stance is simply used as a conditioning drill while MA-ist perfects his/her basic punching technique.

I think half of this sentence is correct. Horse stance is an awesome conditioning drill but the remainder of the argument doesn't hold true.

[sapatiero]

I think TMA's have legitimate punching techniques. They get used frequently in sparring and sometimes in self-defense (for visuals, check out youtube).

I agree that some TMA strikes can work, provided the instructor differentiates between 'sportive' strikes & practical 'real life' ones. I enjoyed JJJ Kumite, but was frustrated when I realised that everything would need to be adapted in real life, and that my semi contact backfists etc. would need to be unlearnt if I was to be capable in a real scenario. The stance was also very side on with the hands guarding the 'points area' of the stomach, so both unstable from certain angles, and impractical for blocking headshots.

In essence, the JJJ I learnt was mainly sportive in nature, and not as practical as the striking from MT or Kyokoshin IMO.