Talk about your style's punching methods

[Blue Wave Gym]

The point that everyone seems to miss both tma and sport combat people is that in self defence you will be punching from what ever stance you are in when attacked pronbably a neutral stance so you should spend time trainin to punch from that stance.

[Tant01]

From time to time...

I'm starting this thread to compare and contrast punching styles from across the board. And before we get started, lets keep it clean - no smack talking; let's keep the criticism constructive.

A punch is a punch, right? .......


.....

Hello Tom Yum.

Before I read both pages here I'll just shoot from the hip and throw this out. (Because that's my style)

I'm fond of pointing out the discrepancy in modern Olympic style judo that I see as far away from the "spirit" of Kodokan.

It's a dark spot in the heart of modern Judo to take away the atemi.

I recently came across a few illustrations (sorry I can't find them?) They are old school Ju No Kata style drawings that show clearly (defences against) these hand techniques.

Finger jab to the eyes. Hammer fist (down blow) to the head. A close in uppercut punch with closed fist. The traditional "Judo" chop to the (neck) clavical from various angles. Straight punch, etc...

...yeah, the list was long. But you know, there is no striking or kicking of any kind in sport Judo...

[Tom Yum]

Hello Tom Yum.
...yeah, the list was long. But you know, there is no striking or kicking of any kind in sport Judo...

LOL...you mean no one grabs the lapel and hides an uppercut with the grip while trying to set up a throw?

[aseepish]

The traditional "Judo" chop to the (neck) clavical from various angles.

heh heh heh... you said JUDO CHOP!!!

[aseepish]

Another consideration is how you get to punching range. FOOTWORK!!

I am personally (at the moment) enamoured of Filipino ∆ footwork. [I'd type the symbol for male triangle, but I have no clue how!]

A tries to punch you in the face:
You "zone out": step forward 45 degrees to the outside. You've avoided the attack and put yourself in a very good place to counter. It's not exclusively FMA (I've been shown something similar in Kenpo, and silat as well).

For Wing Chun - Verticle fist, occupy centre-line. With or without the hip twist (pivot on the heel [lead hand punch]).

[Mephariel]

The Shaolin Punch:

The Power of the Punch!

By Shi Yan Ming, with Allan David Ondash (from Black Belt Magazine, February , www.blackbeltmag.com)

Martial artists often walk into the USA Shaolin Temple in New York City hoping to learn secret fighting techniques. They imagine that the Shaolin monks have practiced mysterious methods of combat for centuries, and they want to learn those keys to instant victory. I usually tell them that they watched too many movies.

The true secret to becoming a better martial artist is expressed in the USA Shaolin Temple mantra: "More Chi! Train Harder!" That's the way the Chinese monks have trained for centuries, and it's the way you should train today. Throughout history, the greatest fighters - be they martial artists, boxers, sumo wrestlers or kung fu practitioners - have risen to the top because of their hard work, courage, focus and discipline. That recipe for success can be applied to every other part of life as well.

This article will discuss methods for mastering the techniques, but you must keep in mind that no matter how complete your technical knowledge is, the real secret of Shaolin fighting lies in the effort you put into your practice sessions.

Foundation

Chinese martial artists have a saying: "The top is the basics; the basics are the top." To get to the top, the best place to start is at the bottom. Starting at the bottom means daily doses of punches, as well as stance and movement training to develop your speed, power and strength.



Strength is inextricably linked to flexibility. It does not have to come from lifting weights, which tends to develop your short muscles; rather, it can come from practicing basics, which tends to develop the long muscles. Flexibility allows a kick to be higher and quicker and a punch to go longer and faster. Flexibility cannot be stressed enough.

In China, I spent much of my life stretching every part of my body as if it were one muscle. For instance, my teachers taught that from the base of your heel to the top of your head, the muscles are connected and should be treated as a single structure.

Consider the typical hamstring stretch: Most people sit on the floor and bend at the middle of their back, and they are satisfied with just touching their toes. Students of Shaolin Kung Fu are told to stretch the length of the body and strive to "kiss" their toes. And they do the same stretch while standing.

Power

The Chinese martial arts teach four levels of power: tui li (pushing power), baofa li (explosive power), qun li (inch power) and tou li (penetrating power).

Pushing power is the simplest. Children learn how to use it on the playground. To push someone away takes no skill; a true martial arts master would probably never use this power in a fight unless he was trying to avoid hurting his opponent.

Explosive power is stronger and for the most part self-explanatory.

Inch power is much more advanced. With it, you can explode your power with only one inch between your fist and the target. You need not draw your hand back before striking.

Penetrating power is the rarest because it is the hardest to develop. With your hand touching your opponent you can use your energy to penetrate his body. After the strike, the front surface of the body will look untouched, but his internal organs will be destroyed and a bruise will appear on the opposite side.

Before exploring ways to use these levels of power in your punches, it is useful to rectify a few incorrect beliefs:
Some martial artists think that the punching power is best gained through striking a heavy bag. Remember that you can show a heavy bag power, but it cannot show you a thing. Heavy bags do have their place, of course. The best method for using one is to start with a lightweight model and graduate to a heavier model as you learn how to project power through your fist.

Others believe that the harder they tense their arms during a strike, the more power they produce. Be forewarned that you can seriously injure yourself with this kind of practice because stress is a negative force. The more relaxed your mind and body are, the better. You must stay relaxed all the way through the punch, and that takes mental and physical discipline.

The human body consists of three major parts: the head, the torso and the legs. All three components must work in concert to generate maximum power.

In the Chinese arts, there are three external harmonies (the hands with the feet, the shoulders with the hips, and the elbows with the knees) and three internal harmonies (the heart with the mind, the mind with the chi, and the chi with the power). Do not fall into the trap of thinking there is a difference between the internal and external for they are always one. No part of the body can move by itself. Thus you cannot execute an external movement without some form of internal instruction. For that reason, you need internal and external coordination to effect a superior punch.

The best way to pack the most power into your punch is to use a corkscrew-like turn that progresses in a specified order: First the foot moves, then the knee, the hip and the waist, the shoulder, the elbow and finally the fist.

[Mephariel]

[Mephariel]

One of the most crucial elements of this is the pivoting of the foot: The heel comes up naturally and the weight remains on the ball. When you activate these elements in harmony, you maximize your power.

You must also focus your eyes on the target of your punch. Never turn your head away from your opponent.

Speed

Again, you must completely relax your mind, which is the master of your body. The more relaxed it is, the more speed and power you can achieve. To generate maximum speed, you must practice the basic punches - zhi quan (straight punch), bai quan (hook) and gou quan (uppercut) - thousands of times a day. After countless repetitions, your fist will become like a sword: sharp, fast and fatal.

When you practice those punches, you should start with your hand in the front position. Some martial artists believe that is it better to wind up by retracting their fist and elbow, but they actually lose power and time when they pull their arm back. Even a minor time loss can create a window of opportunity for an opponent to strike. Shaolin kung fu teaches you to strike from any position. No matter where your hands may be, you need to explode without warning. Remember that the simplest moves are the most powerful.



When executing a right-hand straight punch, many practitioners focus too much on the right side of their body. A faster and more powerful way involves pulling your left shoulder back with the same intensity you push your right shoulder forward. Chinese martial artists used to practice their punches by turning the arms of a cross mounted on top of a large drilling tool used by carpenters centuries ago. The movement involves a perfectly balanced backward and forward thrusting motion for each shoulder.

You can explore additional training methods during sparring sessions by using reaction as your prime motivation. For example, if you are practicing a repetitious defensive maneuver against your partner's offensive action, avoid getting caught up in a playful rhythm. If you are going to fight, you have to be serious about it. You should endeavor to break all rhythmic actions as soon as possible by speeding up, slowing down or faking. Such training will sharpen your reactions and make your punches more likely to land.

Timing

Another Chinese martial arts maxim: If you practice punching thousands of times over a period of several years, you will have your fighting philosophy.

My own fighting philosophy holds that there is no offense and no defense. Rather, they are one and the same. The best defense is offense. Fighting is all about timing, which is all about reaction. Real fights are unlike choreographed sets in that there are no stances and no pre-arranged routines.

If you have the opportunity to punch someone in the head, do it.

If your opponent punches first, you must hope that your reaction skills are sufficient to direct any part of your body - not just your fist or foot - to defend and counterattack simultaneously.

Many fighters who would otherwise wield great skill lose their true potential for power because of timing errors. If you choose to ignore the lessons that stem from their mistakes and allow bad timing to become part of your natural rhythm, you will find it is impossible to fix without starting over.

Since every fight is different with respect to offense and defense, no one can teach you the right time to block or punch.

Now for the shocker: I do not teach my students to block. They just practice punching because, as previously mentioned, the best defense is offense. When Shaolin students practice their punches, they start with both fists in front of their cheeks but slightly to the side. As one fist moves forward, the other remains stationary to defend the face and the chest. Then the most important concept comes into play: As the second fist strikes, the first fist must move backward simultaneously and in perfect harmony. Thus, the block and the punch are always there and not there, for they are one. That is the true meaning of timing.

After you've practiced the basic punches and developed your foundation, power, speed and timing, only one thing remains: to get in the ring and spar.

More chi! Train harder!

Forms vs. Fighting

Forms are forms, and fighting is fighting. In a real fight, there are no stances and no routines - just the single goal of knocking out the other person as quickly as possible. In the ring or on the street, your opponent will not oblige you by getting into the position or stance you learned to deal with in class.

That is not to say that forms practice is a waste of time. Forms help you develop your speed, power, harmony and reaction, for those are the attributes that will best serve you in a real fight.

-Shi Yan Ming

[Mephariel]

[Tant01]

Another consideration is how you get to punching range. FOOTWORK!!

I am personally (at the moment) enamoured of Filipino ∆ footwork. [I'd type the symbol for male triangle, but I have no clue how!]

A tries to punch you in the face:
You "zone out": step forward 45 degrees to the outside. You've avoided the attack and put yourself in a very good place to counter. It's not exclusively FMA (I've been shown something similar in Kenpo, and silat as well).

.....

Yes indeed. If I may be so bold as to suggest "hidden" things in footwork (esp. Triangular stepping) It is easily suggested that if you step closer to the feet of your opponent (enemy) you may also step (ON) behind his foot to defeat his retreat and topple him to the ground.

Look for opportunities to reap, sweep or jam his mobility to cause the unbalanced position... Then just push, (pull or press) him in the direction he should fall.

Footwork is awesome... When you can put it all together with good timing we realize just how top heavy humans really are.

You know... if your objective is to put them on the deck?

[aseepish]

You know... if your objective is to put them on the deck?

Nah, I don't want to do that! I'm a nice guy

[Shard]

Looks good but lifting the back leg off the ground like that takes away a lot of power from the punch. The idea of putting the whole body behind the punch is there but not executed well.


A spinning back fist has a large amount of torque and force within it. The weakest link in the chain would be the fist itself. The problem being that the fist can bend almost 90 degrees inwards. Thus taking away a good amount of the force generated by the backspin.

A better hit would actually be made with a spinning back forearm. Almost the same motion and technique. Just that the surface you use to strike with is the forearm rather than the fist. The forearm is a solid striking surface where the next nearest point of force dissipation would be at the elbow.