vote: Iceman or Rampage?

[Uke]

Liddell has fought Tito (2x), Randy (2x), Jeremy Horn, Babalu, and Vernon White.... all guys who desperately wanted to take the fight to the ground.

Jackson has fought Silva (2x), Arona, Minowa, Ninja, Shogun, Don Sik Yoon, Lindland and Eastman.
Rampage will outstrike Chuck and then when the time is right, press him up against the fence, drop down, lift and slam him.

Nice prediction, 7r14ngL3Ch0k3. You called it.

What's funny about this thread is that I have said all of those things about the striking skills found in MMA, but when I wrote them people were outraged. Now that Chuck got knocked out everyone seems to understand at the moment that the ground grappling skills are light years ahead of the level of the striking skills, and people are even going as far to say that they hate Chuck because he epitomizes those wild, subpar toughman skills. I guess its really is about shooting the messenger here at Defend.net.

I'd like to say two more things.

First, I'd like to say that Chuck isn't the only one who fights that way. Rampage's striking isn't much better than Liddell's, he just caught Chuck first. When you brawl, its any one's game for the taking, and believe me they both brawl. Rampage just seems to be confident enough to take his time when he faces Liddell for some reason. Wanderlei Silva got beat up in even worse fashion against a chain punching Vitor Belfort, and hardly anyone brings the pain like Silva in MMA.

If you still haven't learn this yet, then I'll tell you that boxers box because they realize that brawling makes a bout less about skill and strategy and more about luck, strength and wild aggression. And that's what missing from MMA. Brawling is more exciting to watch and that's what the fans want. I believe that if MMA fighters started to box with proficiency and accuracy, then they'd lose the majority of their American fan base, who IMO don't appreciate high skill level boxing but can't get enough of a good brawl.

How can true MMA fans who wish to see the competitors improve their striking skills to an elite level get what they want when its the brawling that sells tickets? And while its very technical and should be appreciated in its own right, it ain't the ground grappling that draws the crowds. There lies the conundrum.

Second and lastly, I don't like the math "If A beats B, and B beats C, then A beats C". Just because Rampage beat Liddell doesn't mean that Liddell couldn't get in the ring and knock out Silva or Shogun. Kevin Randleman KO'd CroCop who KO'd Wanderlei Silva. Rampage KO'd Randleman, so by that logic shouldn't Rampage have been able to beat Silva in at least one of their two matches?

It doesn't work that way. Never has. Never will.

Congrats Quinton Jackson.

[DickHardman]

people dont seem to realize that chuck liddels striking is a highly specialized, highly modified way of boxing. its supposed to look sloppy, thats the whole trick to it. his hands are in wierd places you wouldnt normally see in a striker, and this is the reason he has been able to knock many people out. the punches come from angles not usually used by others.

chuck is not a brawler lol, if anything he is the opposite. he is calculated and picks his shots. sorry uke, but your attempt at using chuck liddels fighting style to generalizing americans as trashy, unintelligent, violence lovers who prefer senseless brawling over skilled technique is way off.

[Uke]

chuck is not a brawler lol, if anything he is the opposite. he is calculated and picks his shots.

I disagree. A brawler is simply someone that often chooses to get caught up in exchanges.

Also, I'd like to point out that Liddell's style may be modified and specialized, but they are still sub-par striking skills. Were it not for the power that he hits with, you would see Liddell a lot less successful in his matches. And when a man's style is predicated upon power, once someone who has better boxing skills faces him you'll see the man having problems landing. Proof of that was when we all watched wrestler Randy Couture outbox Liddell toe to toe. That was just embarrassing.

Only elite boxer can afford to have their hands down and not get knocked out. Chuck Liddell is not among them and never has been. There are professional boxers who are infinitely more skilled at punching than Liddell is, and even they cannot afford to keep their hands down.

I know you must like Liddell, but he isn't the high skilled striker you'd like him to be. Yet he is one of the best punchers in MMA. Go figure.

sorry uke, but your attempt at using chuck liddels fighting style to generalizing americans as trashy, unintelligent, violence lovers who prefer senseless brawling over skilled technique is way off.

When did I call Americans trashy and unintelligent? Liking brawls and exchanges makes people trashy and unintelligent? I don't know how you came up with that spin job, but that isn't what I wrote.

Try again.

[DickHardman]

I disagree. A brawler is simply someone that often chooses to get caught up in exchanges.

by that definition, every pro boxer is brawler as well.

Also, I'd like to point out that Liddell's style may be modified and specialized, but they are still sub-par striking skills.

subpar compared to who?

Were it not for the power that he hits with, you would see Liddell a lot less successful in his matches. And when a man's style is predicated upon power, once someone who has better boxing skills faces him you'll see the man having problems landing. Proof of that was when we all watched wrestler Randy Couture outbox Liddell toe to toe. That was just embarrassing.

hitting with power is a skill in itself, one that is taught even in boxing. didnt randy get beat by chuck twice??

Only elite boxer can afford to have their hands down and not get knocked out. Chuck Liddell is not among them and never has been. There are professional boxers who are infinitely more skilled at punching than Liddell is, and even they cannot afford to keep their hands down.

i disagree, chuck had his hands down for many fights and beat many other skilled fighters with his own style like that.

I know you must like Liddell, but he isn't the high skilled striker you'd like him to be. Yet he is one of the best punchers in MMA. Go figure.

again, who are you comparing his striking to? pro boxers? cause thats a completely different sport with different rules. its like saying boxers have subpar grappling skills if you put them jiu jitsu tournaments.


btw, why do you always try to compare boxing to mma? they arent the same thing bro.

[Hardball]

Hold on Noobies you forgot about Maurice Smith

Carlos Newton was not the first African American UFC champ it was Maurice Smith who beat Mark Coleman in 1997, defended his title against Tank Abbot then lost it to Randy Couture.

Are you sure that was UFC? I thought Maurice Smith won the title in Pride.

[Hardball]

people dont seem to realize that chuck liddels striking is a highly specialized, highly modified way of boxing. its supposed to look sloppy, thats the whole trick to it. his hands are in wierd places you wouldnt normally see in a striker, and this is the reason he has been able to knock many people out. the punches come from angles not usually used by others.

chuck is not a brawler lol, if anything he is the opposite. he is calculated and picks his shots. sorry uke, but your attempt at using chuck liddels fighting style to generalizing americans as trashy, unintelligent, violence lovers who prefer senseless brawling over skilled technique is way off.

I have to agree with you this time. Chuck is a Kempo Black belt who picks his targets. Chuck aims his punches for pressure points and vital spots.

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

Not true, some guy name Carlos won in 2001. He was the welterweight champ. I'll check my sources and post his last name soon.

actually i just remembered it was Kevin Randleman, he was the ufc champ at one point.

Carlos Newton is CANADIAN. And he's mixed race.

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

like the math "If A beats B, and B beats C, then A beats C". Just because Rampage beat Liddell doesn't mean that Liddell couldn't get in the ring and knock out Silva or Shogun. Kevin Randleman KO'd CroCop who KO'd Wanderlei Silva.

It doesn't work that way. Never has. Never will.

Congrats Quinton Jackson.

I think thats something everyone on this site understands.

UFC to alot people who watch is really just a fad. I knew someone last year who was pretty into MMA (mosty UFC/tuf) and now, he still has such limited knowledge on it cause he's not "into it anymore".

As the sport progresses, the stand up striking will get better, but its not going to happen overnight. And remember, it will never look like a Boxing match. The rules and environment are just too different. Its just like how a wrestler's biggest strengths in the grappling game are completely nullified by a BJJ player in ADCC.....

yea Liddell got KTFO. Im glad. But now so many people will just over hype "Rampage" now.

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

Rampage Vs. Iceman 3 anyone?

................... no.

[J-Luck]

Liddell was so fucking overrated.

Henderson vs Rampage for the next LHW main event.

Liddell should fight Shogun or Sokoudjou next, but UFC will probably feed him a can.


Rampage is the first black american UFC champ. wow

Lol you should go do some MMA,jiu-jitsu,boxing, and kickboxing before calling an elite fighter overrated.

Naaaa, hendi hasn't earned his spot yet, not in the UFC at least.

I'm not quite sure that's true. There have been 3 others I believe.

[J-Luck]

Yeah, Henderson v Rampage...that's just nuts.

Looks like UFC just plans to poach Pride though, at least evening out the HW and LHW divisions.
I wanna see some LW/WW/MW crossovers dammit.

I dunno about Liddell being overrated, but Rampage just proved how underrated he was. Brawler my ass...his boxing was spot on.

Totally like I expected standing up. I didn't expect Chuck to actually get KOd that fast, but it went exactly like I expected. Rampage made good use of distance and his defense to get in close(Chuck didn't connect a single good hit) where he can unload hooks/uppers from the pocket. Well, it only took one hook...I didn't see that happening, but that was some nice damn boxing right there.

Yea red, I take that statement back... My bad. I guess he's said hes been training with much better boxers/kickboxers since coming to America and has greatly improved Technically.

I guess Rampage is just going to get better at this point.

[LoneHusky]

wow, can't believe he knocked his ass out like that. congrats to rampage, he deserves it.

[J-Luck]

WHHHHOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO its about god damn time that Chuck got KTFO....Chuck sucks complete ass...he ko'ed a bunch of wrestlers who couldn't strike for shit....every time he faced a superior striker he was on the verge of getting ko'ed go watch alistair guy and of course Rampage TWICE and no g&P tko....oh no KTFO on the FEET....and the funny thing is i will use "MMA MATH" and say that Wandy obviously completely PWNS LIddell.(sarcastic about MMA math but yea Wandy by ko anyway) o god lets get the entire Chute Boxe team in the UFC and any one of them can and have ko'ed rampage.So ends my rant....im so tired of these stupid ass redneck F**kers and these moron celebs who know SHIT about MMA......and American fans suck ass and are almost all morons......War Rampage!!!!

Actually you're completely innacurate in your statements. And I'm sorry, did those superior strikers knock him out(other than Rampage)? Oh, that's right, they didn't lol. Great logic buddy.

YOU sir, are the moron

[J-Luck]

Ive never been a fan of Chuck. Something about him i dont like. Maybe its the fact that all the ufc noob fans gravitate towards him, or its his style, or his haircut, or the fact the he's the only "ultimate fighter" people can name after they say theyre a fan of the sport(ufc), or maybe its his haircut

while Liddell has skills in all assets of fighting, he always just wants to stick to his wild striking style, and he payed for it.

Technically you are a "noob" fan, and your distrust for that category of people is evidence of this.

Also, there is an overtone of arrogance in this statement(im better than the ignorant fans, ect.)

Dude, get over it/yourself lol.

[J-Luck]

Not true, some guy name Carlos won in 2001. He was the welterweight champ. I'll check my sources and post his last name soon.

There is another too, I can't remember his name though.