Old School Poll

[Hardball]

See the poll and vote. It's True or False and no one can see your response.

Royce Gracie Made BJJ, BJJ did not make Royce Gracie.

[aseepish]

Substitute Kano Jigoro for Royce and it becomes true.

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

the gracies invented grappling/ground fighting

[aseepish]

I stand corrected and withdraw my previous comment!

[Tant01]

Old school/ Ryu ha?

See the poll and vote. It's True or False and no one can see your response.

Royce Gracie Made BJJ, BJJ did not make Royce Gracie.

Are we bored Hardball? LOL

Let me share a little gem with you folks... This is an excerpt from a review (by Mark Gorsuch) of the Japanese biography "A Lion's Dream, the Story of Mitsuyo Maeda", by Norio Kohyama.


Maeda was born in Aomori Prefecture in 1878. Aomori is the northernmost prefecture on Japan's main island. He moved to Tokyo when he was about 18 and began judo. The first record of him entering the Kodokan is in 1897. He had a natural talent for judo and moved through the ranks very quickly, establishing himself as the most promising young judoka in the Kodokan.

Emphasis mine...

[aseepish]

I withdraw my previous withdrawal!

[blitz]

This is just bait to make Tant0 repeat what he's been repeating over and over since I joined this forum. You should change thread title to, Did Royce Gracie make ground JUDO or Newaza popular?

[Hardball]

Nope, the reason for this thread is so many BJJ Bad Asses have been getting knocked out in UFC and other MMA events. There is now a false perception that a BJJ Black belt automatically makes you a bad ass. LOL They are getting their arse kicked with regular frequency thus the thought, Hey maybe Royce was just a true bad ass and not Because of his BJJ.

[gregimotis]

You know, it's just possible that Royce Gracie was a true Bad-ass AND BJJ is a very effective martial art.

It's also possible that there is nothing in BJJ that wasn't already in Judo AND BJJ took ground work to a new level.

It's further possible that Floyd Mayweather beat Oscar De La Hoya AND De La Hoya is one of the best boxers of all time AND Mayweather is a great boxer all at the same time.


It's patently obvious that the BJJ players dominated other martial artists in the early UFC's - and it's obvious that it wasn't just the rule-set. We all went back to our gyms and tested it out. In a one-one match, a pure striker tended to lose against a pure grappler. That's the way it went down a thousand times in a thousand different gyms - you could accept it and adapt, or you could make excuses for yourself and cry about the rules.
It's further obvious that a guy who spends his time learning nothing but ground work will tend to be a better ground player than someone who spends half his time on the ground and half of it standing up (AKA Judo). A specialist will excel at his specialty.

So why do we want to go through this same argument again and again? Because some BJJ enthusiasts have got their egos wrapped around the 'ultimate martial art' crap and some Judoka are jealous of BJJ's attention and some non-grapplers are still butt-hurt about the exposure of a serious hole in their training.


Ego, jealousy and embarrassment is what this whole thing is about. Can we get over it already?

[Hardball]

I think time will do much justice to Royce's legacy. True BadAss.

[blitz]

You also see BJJ guys winning. Don't kid yourself and say Royce is a badass, he just fought the oldies who didn't know shit about mma. Now winner or loser you know BJJ whether you like it or not.

[Tant01]

This is just bait to make Tant0 repeat what he's been repeating over and over since I joined this forum. .....

...

...........LOL

I didn't think I had shared THAT particular source yet...

[Shoot]

You know, it's just possible that Royce Gracie was a true Bad-ass AND BJJ is a very effective martial art.

It's also possible that there is nothing in BJJ that wasn't already in Judo AND BJJ took ground work to a new level.

It's further possible that Floyd Mayweather beat Oscar De La Hoya AND De La Hoya is one of the best boxers of all time AND Mayweather is a great boxer all at the same time.


It's patently obvious that the BJJ players dominated other martial artists in the early UFC's - and it's obvious that it wasn't just the rule-set. We all went back to our gyms and tested it out. In a one-one match, a pure striker tended to lose against a pure grappler. That's the way it went down a thousand times in a thousand different gyms - you could accept it and adapt, or you could make excuses for yourself and cry about the rules.
It's further obvious that a guy who spends his time learning nothing but ground work will tend to be a better ground player than someone who spends half his time on the ground and half of it standing up (AKA Judo). A specialist will excel at his specialty.

So why do we want to go through this same argument again and again? Because some BJJ enthusiasts have got their egos wrapped around the 'ultimate martial art' crap and some Judoka are jealous of BJJ's attention and some non-grapplers are still butt-hurt about the exposure of a serious hole in their training.


Ego, jealousy and embarrassment is what this whole thing is about. Can we get over it already?

Great answer!

[Hardball]

You also see BJJ guys winning. Don't kid yourself and say Royce is a badass, he just fought the oldies who didn't know shit about mma. Now winner or loser you know BJJ whether you like it or not.

You gotta be crazy. (Said with respect of a fellow martial artist). Just for one, look at Royce fighting Dan "The Beast" Severn. Royce barely weighed 175 for that fight while Dan tipped the scales at 260. Royce beat him by submission. True Bad Ass.

[whitebelt]

You also see BJJ guys winning. Don't kid yourself and say Royce is a badass, he just fought the oldies who didn't know shit about mma.

How many contemporary BJJ guy's fight out of their weight class? Far out of their weight class, not just 10 or 15lbs? Even Kimo outweighed Royce by over 40lbs. The list goes on and on and on. Royce had Big Balls for fighting the "Big Boys". Matt Hughes caught Royce when he was an old man, way past his prime.