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The US Special Forces practice full contact TKD as part of improving their kicks in their hand to hand combat training. My MT instructor use to teach soldiers MT and he was impressed with the TKD techniques that were taught to the soldiers. TKD has a bad rep for some bad ways of teaching the art but it can be useful to learn in some situations.
the US special forces/us army have not used "full contact TKD" since the modern combatives program has been developed.
I have learned some traditional martial arts like Karate and Arnis. I also have a modern martial art background of Boxing/MT/BJJ/Judo/Wrestling.
One thing i never understood is, why is K. Karate a "TMA" but BJJ is not? IF anythign BJJ is OLDER than Kyuokushin Karate.
The weakness of TMA is in the lack of full contact sparring and physical conditioning. They also take long to learn. Their strength lies in learning the philosophy, discipline, respect of martial arts and are geared more toward self defense. They teach you moves that can disable or even kill your opponent like throat attacks etc.
eye rakes/groin strikes/ throat punching is a common excuse that alot of TMA guys use to defend their art. Look, it's not that difficult to learn how to defend these moves or learn how to attack those targets. Besides, hands up/chind down will negate alot of those attacks.
eye rakes/groin strikes/ throat punching is a common excuse that alot of TMA guys use to defend their art. Look, it's not that difficult to learn how to defend these moves or learn how to attack those targets. Besides, hands up/chind down will negate alot of those attacks.
I don't know... I'm very impressed with my uncles skills (practical, effective, and battle tested) as a fighter and I reckon much of what he knows is probably classified as TMA. Granted, he's done kick boxing in younger days too, so I'm sure that helps him (in defining how he fights).
Just last night he was briefly slap boxing with me and showing me a sweep, a certain way to strike the opponents knee, and some kind of standing arm bar that just puts tons of pain on the shoulder. He was stating all this in relation to some things to do if someone "runs up in your cell" (prison cell).
One thing I learned from him last night - he was slapping my arms away as threw my punches (I threw them semi-fast), but he slapped with force, and the force was enough not just to veer my punches off but to inflict pain in my shoulders from the jerk of my arms thrown off direction. It was in all that motion that at some point he grabed one of my arms fired in a punch and threw it in some kind of arm bar. (I think you might be able to dislocate someones shoulder with it)
He noted though, that it would take a lot of time and practice to learn how to time and grab someones arm like that when they are throwing punches.
He knows karate, what type I'm not sure, he also incoporates in knees and elbows from some of his brief experience with Thai boxing (his kickboxing background is not Thai boxing though).
My uncle is pretty big muscle wise, so that probably helps him with techniques such as slapping punches away. I don't know... made me think I'm probably to small though?
"That's how I feel, I'ma do whatever I like ... I was raised in this society so you can't expect me to be a perfect person cause, I'ma do what I'ma do."
Boxing is a modern combat sport. It is not a traditional martial art.
@ Jules
The current US military program is basically MMA (Boxing, MT, BJJ, Wrestling) with full contact arnis training like the Dog Brothers (stick/knife). However throws from Judo and moves like the sidekick from TKD and Karate are taught as well. Groin attacks, neck and eye attacks from TMA are also taught. The military has their own system in which they combine all this into the most effective training in the least amount of time possible.
They train TKD to improve their kicks like I said. It is not the bases of their empty hand training. I believe they still do. If you have proof they do not now you may give me an official US military link saying they do not to prove me wrong because my instructor told me this.
Kyuokushin Karate is still a TMA because it stays true to its roots. They still have all the other parts of Karate and it is just that they practice full contact. At my place we have MT gear when we spar with hits to the face an no gear when hits to the face are not allowed. I did karate first before Boxing and MT. I was in good shape and did well in these full contact styles because of my full contact karate background. Main thing was to condition my shins and being able to stand blows to the head at full power by boxers. My body was already like a rock.
A lot of MMA fighters who have no TMA background think TMA is a joke. They underestimate TMA and all that is learned from TMA. This is a big mistake. There are many empty hand moves that can easily lead to death. These are in TMA. If you go to the roots of the arts you can even learn the most dangerous ones. If TMA is practiced with full contact and good conditioning then we can even see them in MMA to a good deal.
The love, respect, honor and philosophy of martial arts is learned from TMA. Do not get me wrong I do MMA and it has its place as well.
The current US military program is basically MMA (Boxing, MT, BJJ, Wrestling) with full contact arnis training like the Dog Brothers (stick/knife). However throws from Judo and moves like the sidekick from TKD and Karate are taught as well. Groin attacks, neck and eye attacks from TMA are also taught. The military has their own system in which they combine all this into the most effective training in the least amount of time possible.
They train TKD to improve their kicks like I said. It is not the bases of their empty hand training. I believe they still do. If you have proof they do not now you may give me an official US military link saying they do not to prove me wrong because my instructor told me this.
so let me get this straight.. because they use a few kicks that may or may not have come from tkd, they are training "full contact tkd"?
so let me get this straight.. because they use a few kicks that may or may not have come from tkd, they are training "full contact tkd"?
I may ask you just because BJJ white belts only do only arm bars and chokes are they are doing BJJ? Yes just because they do not do leg or ankle locks in the start does not mean they are not doing BJJ.
Same thing just because they might not practice a tornado kick does not mean they are not learning TKD or at least a part of it.
Like I said they train TKD to improve their kicks. Since they are limited on time and they cannot learn everything they limit their moves to ones that are easy to learn and are effective.
When we learn MMA we break things down and practice each aspect of the game in parts and then spar and put it together. So we practice striking with our striking coach. We practice wrestling with our wrestling coach then we practice subs with our BJJ coach. Then we put it all together with our head coach.
Same thing military does. They do only boxing to improve their hands. So they spar with only hands for a while.. Then they practice only kicking. This is full contact TKD for the most part. Then they do kickboxing (MT) and put their striking together. Then they wrestle only. Then they practice wrestling with subs. Then they practice only sticks. Then they practice only knife. Then they put it all together. Get what I am trying to say?
I may ask you just because BJJ white belts only do only arm bars and chokes are they are doing BJJ? Yes just because they do not do leg or ankle locks in the start does not mean they are not doing BJJ.
they are doing bjj because they are fighting with the philosophy of jiu jitsu. Just because a person throw some knees and elbows, he or she is not doing "muay thai".
Like I said they train TKD to improve their kicks. Since they are limited on time and they cannot learn everything they limit their moves to ones that are easy to learn and are effective.
Dude, you knew what you said. You wanted to make it sound like they trained some form of "full contact tkd". NO they do not.
Same thing military does. They do only boxing to improve their hands. So they spar with only hands for a while.. Then they practice only kicking. This is full contact TKD for the most part. Then they do kickboxing (MT) and put their striking together. Then they wrestle only. Then they practice wrestling with subs. Then they practice only sticks. Then they practice only knife. Then they put it all together. Get what I am trying to say?
Honestly, i have trained with us army personell (including special forces people) for years and they never did any tkd like sparring. ONly kicks??? No. But wait, one of my friends is a US army combatives instructor and i will ask him. Give me a few days.
Now why did i learn bjj on base? I live in korea and back when i started there weren't many bjj gyms in korea. One of my friends was training with the US army and he introduced me to a combatives club(not official) in "hananm village", we trained at hanaam and at trent gym on yongsan army base. There were different kinds of people at our club, we had joes, MI officers (a purple belt LT who was teaching us) and some SF guys. That was my introduciton to bjj and i will tell you that we had no shortage of "though guys" who wanted to "check us out" who did tma.
apparently if it works it's not tma no matter how old it is :s..
The BJJ that everyone does now in MMA is considered to be a modern combat sport. The traditional Gracie Jiu-Jitsu's is considered a TMA.
"Differences between BJJ styles
Today, the main differences between the BJJ styles is between traditional Gracie Jiu-Jitsu's emphasis on self-defense, and Sport Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu's orientation towards point competition. There is a large commonality of techniques between the two. Also, there is a wide variety of ideals in training in different schools in terms of the utilization of technique versus how much to attempt to overpower an opponent."
plz don't quote wiki to make a point... i mean come on.. what are we? 15?
You do not like wiki it is ok. I have many sources. Official BJJ site.
"Comparing "old" Jiu-Jitsu to "new" Jiu-Jitsu is like comparing old cars to new. Both a Ford Model-T and a Ferrari will do the same job, but a Ferrari will do it more efficiently. The ability of Jiu-Jitsu teachers can be compared to the mechanics certified to work on these cars; if you take a mechanic from 1910 and show him a Ferrari, some things would look familiar, but he would not understand the new design and complexity of the modern variation without proper training."
i guess you can say that "GJJ" teaches some more standing locks that's low %.. That's about it. IMHO. IF you watch the old gjj in action tapes they don't use any of the standing techniques against other styles. They clinch, take down, gnp, submit.
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