Which martial art for me?

[M7M]

This part:

How does what I said here (which you also conveniently edited out):

"Either ending the confrontation with something as simple as a thumb lock or a throw, immediately followed by a wrist lock or something. Or if you just want to break their arm, etc. Or finish with a vital point strike (which is available in all MAs). Only problem is, it's not that easy when the guy's not giving you his fingers in slow motion like how it's done during training."

Negate or conflict with what I said afterwards (below) in pointing out your idiocy?

"So what part about the thumb lock being one of many techniques does your high school dropout self not understand?"

Again, don't bet your ass on it kid. I'm sure you are quite devastating in the dojo, though...

Bet on what old man? I'll take the life of a kid with a college degree in a highly marketable field over being an old man with gray hair and working in a low income job anyday. I hear that G.E.D. calling you.

[jubaji]

Bet on what old man? I'll take the life of a kid with a college degree in a highly marketable field over being an old man with gray hair and working in a low income job anyday. I hear that G.E.D. calling you.

Don't bet on your mighty thumb lock leading to, from, into, or out of anything out in the real world, Sonny-boy.

Say, you've got a college degree? That's pretty nifty alright! Yu must be one smert little whipper-snapper.

Although, you do seem to have some class issues you might want to do something about.

[Tant01]

Or you're an idiot?

that's ok, because you didn't burst anything. here's an interview straight from Helio Gracie and Rorion Gracie explaining that they were taught Japanese Jiu-Jitsu and not Judo. it seemd that Konde Koma was a Judoka who taught them Jiu-Jitsu in 1914. Helio Gracie even said that Judo came to Brazil around 1950-1960.

so your statement about BJJ coming from Judo is false.

Helio Gracie: Judo vs Jujitsu

That article clearly says "Kosei Maeda known by the name of Konde Koma was a judo-ka who got out of Japan to spread Kodokan Judo to the world..."

...

Imagine THAT? There was no JUJUTSU going into the world...It's ALL JUDO.

No matter what GM HELIO declares it to be... No weapons? No JUJUTSU...

It really is that simple...

[Tom Yum]

Then why does the UFC and other MMA tourneys don't allow thumb locks, finger locks, and other small joint manipulations?

And you seem to not understand that I've already stated TWICE that the thumb lock is a precursor to other techniques that follows in the same motion such as breaking the wrist, then dislocating the elbow while throwing or striking. What part of what I just said for the 3rd time escapes you?

Just joining in this discussion...

Small joint manipulation is something that isn't frequently used in most fighting, just like trapping.

They can work, but in MMA where, gloves are used, they might be a little harder to pull off. Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with them.

Finger jabs to the eyes are banned (for obvious reasons) as are fishhooks and other dirty techniques. Such moves are crippling. Some of the biggest, baddest fighters have been stunned by accidental finger jabs to the eyes.

[Adept]

Small joint manipulation is something that isn't frequently used in most fighting, just like trapping.

Uhh, Mr Yum, not to get all technical but...trapping IS used. Maybe the trapping you're use to seeing in the octagon isn't done FMA style but...

When two UFC guys clinch up and tie each other's arms, they're using trapping.

When they go to the ground and start 'hand holding', they're using trapping.

Sorry, I just get compulsive when people say that trapping is never used or is useless. Because if you think about it...you're probably using it without noticing it.

[Lone_Knight]

Erm, just thought i'd put in my two cents about the thumb lock. It would really never fuckin work in a self-defense situation. Even if you had it hard, the other guy has adrenaline, and will be punching you in the face when your trying to manipulate him. In your dojo it hurts more cuz your calm and you know the other guy is gonna let go. That no adrenaline, just makes you think it's devastating. Not to mention it would be near impossible to get a thumb lock against someone in the first place. They're not martial artists. They're going to be swinging their hands all over the place. And if they did grab your collar or whatever the minute you start grabbing their fingers they'll pull away. So even if you did it would be such a sacrifice move. You'd take so many shots to the face to be lucky to be still on your feet.

[treelizard]

Some jackass used joint manipulation on me at the old gym I used to go to and he still didn't get me to tap out. I don't remember exactly what happened just that it was some really explosive newb who weighed a lot more than me but had no technique and I was obviously pissing him off because he couldn't get position on me. He was giving me way too much space and attempting submissions he really didn't know. Anyway I don't remember all the details except that I managed to scramble out of it. And then I quit that gym.

My finger is still kind of messed up though and it's been about three months. I got an x-ray at some point after it'd been messed up for a couple months b/c I thought maybe he'd fractured it but the x-ray came out negative. They told me to get an MRI but I'd feel like a total pussy if I got an MRI on my finger. So I just tape it up...but I can't really train stand-up right now because every time I punch a bag with that hand it hurts like hell. I'm hoping it'll heal up in a month or two; that it's some soft-tissue thing.

[jubaji]

Fingers aren't difficult to break, but that doesn't mean breaking one will change an outcome, as your fine example shows us.


Give it some time and it should be fine.

[M7M]

[QUOTE=jubaji;304050]Don't bet on your mighty thumb lock leading to, from, into, or out of anything out in the real world, Sonny-boy. v

Once again oldman, your reading comprehension skills failed you. What part about the thumblock being one of many techniques of JJ do you not understand?

Say, you've got a college degree? That's pretty nifty alright! Yu must be one smert little whipper-snapper.

Although, you do seem to have some class issues you might want to do something about.

It's still not too late to get that G.E.D. oldtimer.

[M7M]

That article clearly says "Kosei Maeda known by the name of Konde Koma was a judo-ka who got out of Japan to spread Kodokan Judo to the world..."

...

Imagine THAT? There was no JUJUTSU going into the world...It's ALL JUDO.

No matter what GM HELIO declares it to be... No weapons? No JUJUTSU...

It really is that simple...

Well I did CLEARLY say in my post that he was a judoka who taught the Gracies Jiu-Jitsu (and not Judo).

The Gracies even said that Judo didn't come to Brazil until the 1950s.

[Tant01]

Jujutsu is dead...

Well I did CLEARLY say in my post that he was a judoka who taught the Gracies Jiu-Jitsu (and not Judo).

The Gracies even said that Judo didn't come to Brazil until the 1950s.

PHUI...

I'm not wasting any more time on you.

It's not jujutsu... It's JUDO!

Notice the GI? The COLORED BELTS? Say it with me... Ju-DOH!

Welcome to my ignore list...

[M7M]

Because of the high probability of serious long term injury to the digits. Just because you can cripple someone for life, doesn't mean that it will end a fight. So they can't write there name anymore, they can still beat you do to death.

what part of the thumb lock being the precursor to other techniques that immediately follows do you not understand?

[/QUOTE] It does not escape me, I simply reject your premise that your going to get the thumb lock to begin with, and even if you do, it's not going to keep them from beating you long before you get to the wrist lock, or elbow. [/QUOTE]

see, here's your problem. you don't know what this thumb lock, transitioning into a wrist lock then elbow lock is. it's all done in one motion and w/i about 1 second. the Gracies teaches this, you just don't know about it.

You are talking low probability technique.

why is it low probability when someone just grabbed you by the jacket? it's probably low probability to you b/c you don't know anything about it.

On someone with a serious intent it's just not something you can rely on.

wait what? you have a crystal ball? you know people's exact intent?

If your precursor technique is improbable then the chain that comes after it is even more improbable. So unless you have tried this under full resistance and been able to pull it off several times you are talking theory not reality.

it's full resistance during sparring all the time. and the opponent knows the technique and that it's coming so that makes it even more difficult than a real situation vs. real badasses such as yourself who are impervious to pain.

that was just to show you the difference in mind set. in my world the knife isn't a surprise, it is the natural reaction to having a ground fighter take me to the ground.

that must suck. hope you get out of prison soon.

I have seen many people escape a RNC that was sunk in, there are plenty of videos around of people doing it.

wow. let's try it again. imagine that we're in the real world and not your Jean-Claude Van Dame meets the Incredible Hulk world where the threshold of pain is multiplied by a million.....is it possible for you to realize that it is possible for a RNC to be sunken in and making someone (not you of course, RNC never works on you) pass out?

if you seen plenty of videos of people getting out...then you didn't see a completed RNC. you saw an attempt at a completed RNC.

you must be tough as hell from the way that you talk. you're probably tougher than Tank Abbott who tapped out like a baby from a little ankle lock or Randy Coutoure who quit b/c he got grazed on the eyelid and lost his belt. just curious, what's your name and what's your tournament record so i can check it out.

[Tant01]

If Wikipedia can figure it out so can YOU!

It is often claimed that BJJ is a development of traditional Japanese jujutsu, and that Maeda was a jujutsuka. However, Maeda never trained in jujutsu. He first trained in sumo as a teenager, and after the interest generated by stories about the success of judo at contests between judo and jujutsu that were occurring at the time, he changed from sumo to judo, becoming a student of Kano's Kodokan judo.^[2] He was promoted to 7th dan in Kodokan judo the day before he died in 1941.
Hélio Gracie himself had already risen to the rank of 6th dan in judo by the time of his fight against Kimura in 1951.<sup>[7]

Yeah... Judo!!!</sup>

[jubaji]

[QUOTE=M7M;304082]

Don't bet on your mighty thumb lock leading to, from, into, or out of anything out in the real world, Sonny-boy. v

Once again oldman, your reading comprehension skills failed you. What part about the thumblock being one of many techniques of JJ do you not understand?



It's still not too late to get that G.E.D. oldtimer.

You seem very proud of your high-falutin' edumacation there boy, but you might need to brush up on your own reading skills.

[Tom Yum]

You seem very proud of your high-falutin' edumacation there boy, but you might need to brush up on your own reading skills.

LOL @ jubaji!!!

Personally, I think education is a good thing but certainly not the only thing.

It seems like anyone, anywhere can get an MBA from any institution. Sure the training and thought process is usefull but the degree itself has evolved from a specialty to a diffrentiated commodity...


...oh nevermind