a little help please

[Bluecat1]

hi there, im looking to take up mma, local to me there is a general mma class twice a week, alternately i could do boxing twice a week and bjj plus submission wrestling for another 2 nights, if i were to do the latter there is a worry that i would not be able link it all together, a case of too many techniques, any thoughts?

[Guest]

Hello Bluecat,

Sounds like you've got some good options there.

My personal advice, with the caveat that I don't know anything about the instructors, is go with the MMA class as a start. That should give you a solid foundation, and a good basic understanding of how the arts work for you. From that point you will know either what area you need to work on more, or what area you really like. At which stage you can turn to the Boxing or BJJ to fine tune your skills.

That sounds like a win win to me, hope it helps. Let us know how you get on.

[Bluecat1]

thanks mike, i failed to mention that the mma class is situated in a full time muay thai academy also

[Guest]

in that case, you have a win win win

[Bjjexpertise@be]

I'm gonna actually have to disagree with Wright here. A class where they try to throw beginners into MMA is just a horrible idea. You should find a foundation in one art then branch off from there. I've seen numerous kids who jumped right into a MMA class and they suck horrendously at all aspects of fighting. I say pick a foundation art whether it be boxing, wrestling, BJJ, etc. Do that for a year then start working on other stuff.

[kingoftheforest]

Just MHO

I agree with BJJexpertise@be. You should find a foundation and build from it.

If you're really wanting a CMA take Wing Chun spend a year or so on it. It's effective more so than other TCMA is a quicker time period.

If not that take Judo and prop it up with some kind of punching art like Muy Thai or boxing.

Getting a good base for how to fight and then going into TCMA's is better.

I started boxing then went to judo and TKD. I also mixed a little wrestling in there and took a MMA class for awhile.

Then I moved into TCMAs.

If you want something for self defense finding a combatives class would be my advice to you.

[Bluecat1]

thanks 4 the replys folks

thing is im 32 now, not too old i hear you say but despite this im not wanting to be a hard nut or anything, just want a good knowledge of what im watching whilst watching mma

[Guest]

Each to their own.

I guess all I can say is that you guys must have had poor experiences with MMA classes, where as I have only had positive ones. The gyms I attended such as Pancrase or Shootfighters taught a very solid foundation in Thai, Boxing and Submission Grappling. The instructors really knew their arts in depth and had years of fight experience to draw upon. Everything was taught in a progression and no one was thrown into anything too soon.

If we have no faith that MMA can teach it's component arts correctly, then surely doesn't that make the notion MMA itself a falacy?

[Bjjexpertise@be]

It's not so much that the instructors can't teach. If someone takes a MMA class three times a week and you learn how to do an armbar the first day, then work on striking the second day, and then learn takedowns the third day, what you get in the end is a person who is really not established in any area at all. They're going to be horrendous in all areas because they're not spending enough time on each individual one.

[Guest]

But that's exactly my point BJJ, that's MIXED Martial Arts, that's how its supposed to work, or by your rationale - it doesnt. Learning different elements of combat, inparralel and in conjunction with each other is what MIXED Martial arts is. That's how most of the athletes in the cage train, I don't see many of them as horrendous in all areas.

Crosstraining is what I have grown up with. As a JKD man I have always studied a range of methods at the same time, and it has served me just fine. Sure, I have gone into individual arts in more detail, but my base comes from Crosstraining.

So I guess I'm just a little surprised at your thoughts on training a blend of arts. Its just the way it is in the 21st century, and looking at the quality of young fighters coming out of these gyms, I can't relate to your notion that the training methods are ineffective.

[Tant01]

With all due respect...

It's not so much that the instructors can't teach. If someone takes a MMA class three times a week and you learn how to do an armbar the first day, then work on striking the second day, and then learn takedowns the third day, what you get in the end is a person who is really not established in any area at all. They're going to be horrendous in all areas because they're not spending enough time on each individual one.

I would say after 52 weeks you would notice some improvement in those skills taught in the first three days.

I watched many (MANY) students progress from "horrendous" to fair after only a few weeks or months. A whole year should give you some solid fundamentals.

To be fair, MMA has been around for a very long time... Only the names of things are "new"...

If a guy learns decent boxing skills, knows how to wrestle and trains a bit of Judo... moves on to some old school military combatives and plays some silat or kali...JKD and BJJ...

He may not MASTER anything but he should be capable of ADAPTING to any number of fighting styles and using the tools from any particular "art" or ARTS to achive his or her objective...

Or not... ?

What do I know? LOL

The modern sport fighting industry is simply capitalizing on the publicity and hype...

[Bjjexpertise@be]

But that's exactly my point BJJ, that's MIXED Martial Arts, that's how its supposed to work, or by your rationale - it doesnt. Learning different elements of combat, inparralel and in conjunction with each other is what MIXED Martial arts is. That's how most of the athletes in the cage train, I don't see many of them as horrendous in all areas.

Crosstraining is what I have grown up with. As a JKD man I have always studied a range of methods at the same time, and it has served me just fine. Sure, I have gone into individual arts in more detail, but my base comes from Crosstraining.

So I guess I'm just a little surprised at your thoughts on training a blend of arts. Its just the way it is in the 21st century, and looking at the quality of young fighters coming out of these gyms, I can't relate to your notion that the training methods are ineffective.

I've always though that the best way to mixed styles is to start off with a foundation art, we'll say boxing. After doing that for say a year, you expand and start taking grappling classes while still taking boxing, etc. it goes on and one and on.

What I honestly feel doesn't work are kids taking an MMA class where they try to cover everything into one class. What ends up happening is that they aren't able to do jack at all with what they're taught. They can't grasp the fundamentals of any area (striking, grappling, position, etc) because they're not spending enough time in any one and they don't have a base to work with.
An MMA class will work well with a veteran from some other art. If you boxed and took an MMA class, it might work for you because you already understand how to throw hands along with footwork, movement, etc.
So I'd much rather that the person training mixes and integrates it on his own from experience for the most part than let someone else do it for them when they have absolutely no idea what they're doing.

[Guest]

Ideally yes, I completely agree. Someone with a really solid foundation, especially if that is a Wrestling or Boxing background, is going to progress far better in MMA - as many of the top fighters have proven. So no arguments that this is the preferrered scenario.

I guess my point is that at a good MMA school, with good teachers who (as Tant rightly said) encourage a steady progression with lots of repetition, I believe a blended approach can work from the outset. Tant also made a great point that this is nothing new, which I echo from my JKD.

Coming into MMA with a solid foundation is no doubt a great advantage. However, bearing in mind the sheer popularity of MMA across the globe now, and the number of Academies taking brand new students, you would hope (going back to my original point) that the concept of crosstraining isn't a falacy.

Good to chew the fat.

[kingoftheforest]

I have to say you guys are both correct in your own rights. While it would be preferable that someone have a solid foundation I don't think it's necessary with proper instruction.

I'd agree that teaching someone how to get to the ground would be the first route since all the MMA fights I've seen start upright on your feet. It's not a bad idea to incorporate at the same time what to do if you are taken or you yourself take it to the ground.


A class could even consist of both elements cohesively. Begin with the 2 fighters on their feet show them some stand up, then how to clinch, how to take it down from the clinch and then a basic move once on ground level. Rinse and repeat till it soaks in, then elaborate on alternative techniques as the student progresses.

You can't have a foundation till you learn something anyway, so either idea gets you to a starting point.

[Scott Bolinger]

hi there, im looking to take up mma, local to me there is a general mma class twice a week, alternately i could do boxing twice a week and bjj plus submission wrestling for another 2 nights, if i were to do the latter there is a worry that i would not be able link it all together, a case of too many techniques, any thoughts?

Usually boxing gyms are open all week long. just tak to your coach and let him or her know what your doing and what your schedlue is and try and figure up a 5 day training schedlue.

Just gotta remember to get your runninng and sprints done as well. I'd do that 5 days a week as well. If your just starting, go with 2 days a week for a couple of weeks on the BJJ, then add the running in the mornings for a 3 or 4 weeks. then add the boxing. Jump everying in there all together, i'd hate to see a quick burn out. But i'd keep track of your training program, jot things down so you don't forget, or jot things down to do more focus on. If you like a move, then drill it hard and often so it comes second nature.