Dad gave me a bulletproof vest...

[Ryu (non-working password]

Huh?? Bobby_Steeles are you high?
I don't even understand your insults anymore. I wasn't on the subway.
What the hell are you talking about? What a weirdo...

YeLLa, that's why I asked. It was made into such a big deal when I was there. I can't remember exactly when though. About a year or so ago maybe.
Oh well thought you might have heard about it.

Ryu

[Mik_36]

I definately believe it Yella Tiger,

I went to school at Waterloo and have hardly been to Toronto, maybe twice, I just didn't know for sure. They have pretty strict gun control up there I know that, my Mom lives up there.

Some try to say Canada is really boring etc. but I REALLY liked it up there. Laugh all you want.

I also have relatives in Vancouver and I never hear them complain about massive crime or gun violence, so it is probably about the same as Toronto.

[aseepish]

Vancouver

Vancouver has its share of "big city" crime, but most of the time (and this is true for any Canadian city, I'll wager) shooting victims know their assailants prior to the crime. Either that or they're gang related incidents. But that said, their frequency is much lower than say Seattle (We get a couple of Seattle TV stations in Vancouver, violent crime seemed to be a weekly event).

In Singapore it's even more "boring" - a guy breaks a beer bottle over the head of another guy in a bar and it's a newsworthy event here.

-Tony

[Mik_36]

Hi aseepish,

Don't take any of these questions as insults, O.K., these are sincere questions about what I think I heard on T.V a couple years ago about Singapore.

1. You can get fined or get a small amount of jail time for not flushing a public toilet.

2. Some guy kept pissing in some elevator and for some reason, despite cameras, they couldn't figure out who it was. So they like assembled a big investigative unit and had a sting operation to catch this guy that was pissing in an elevator.

Of course these are just two extreme examples that are kind of crazy and that is probably why they showed them on the news.

I'm not making fun here! I'm actually trying to find out if these are true or just B.S.. I do know that they have Law and Order over there so on the WHOLE everyone has to conceid that they are doing alot better than the U.S..

[Mik_36]

I've got a feeling the two stories I heard were B.S or exaggerations, because this was right during the time they were going to whip that kid for vandalising cars, remember?

[aseepish]

Singapore

Hi Mik_36,

I'm not Singaporean (I'm Canadian), so I'm not insulted. I don't think most of the Singaporeans I know would be insulted either, they seem to be proud of the fact that theirs is country with strict laws.

1. The fine for not flushing a public toilet. This is absolutely true, but I've never heard about anyone being prosecuted for it. Most public toilets here have auto-flushers anyways.

2. The fine for taking a piss in the elevator. Also true! This is the most bizarre thing - it is actually a big social problem. I've encountered many a suspiscious wet elevator floor. I've seen elevators with signs that read "Notice! This elevator equipped with urine sensors. Alarm will sound!"

It is also illegal to import chewing gum, although possession of small quantities for personal use is permitted.

There is a big trade off at work here. Yes, there is law and order. There is a low level of crime. It is one of the only big cities of the world that I know of where a woman can walk the streets downtown alone without the fear of rape or robbery (rape and robbery occur, but very rarely). There is a high standard of living.

It is a multi-racial, multi-ethnic society where the people are tolerant and live in peace. Christians live side by side with Muslims, Buddhists, and Hindus. Just across the water in Sumatra they are killing each other.

On the other hand, there are some strict regulations regarding what a lot of us would take for granted.

Owning a car for example - you must pay a 100% import tax, various fees, as well as purchase a "certificate of entitlement" - proof that you are financially able to own a car. This costs around US $25,000. All together, what would be a $10,000 car in north America costs about $50,000 here.

Forget about carrying any kind of weapon (not that you need to here, though). Martial arts are strictly controlled - all instructors have to be registered.

The police have the right to arrest and detain (indefinately and without trail) anyone deemed to be a threat to national security. This is actually a remnant of the Colonial British law, and was used mostly to arrest communist infiltrators during the Malayan Emergency during the late 40s and 50s.

Laws about illegal assembly are strictly enforced. There can be no unsanctioned speech giving. The opposition party here hasn't won an election since independence in 1965. There have been only two prime ministers since then Lee Kwan Yew (Who is a brilliant leader), and Goh Chok Tong. The government isn't authoritarian per se, but does exercise a great deal of control. The newspapers are not government owned, but generally toe the line. There is active censorship of the arts (something that I find difficult to tolerate). People don't seem to mind all this though, as long as they are prospering (and they are! There are many BMWs and Mercedes-Benzes here despite the $250,000 + price tag).

Worst of all, there is a heavy import tax on alcohol. A beer costs $10.

Living here for a year has really made me value my rights and freedoms back home (even if they are still somewhat limited in terms of weapons laws). But I still enjoy the lifestyle here. It's a great place to work.

Cheers,

Tony

[Mik_36]

Re: Singapore

Originally posted by aseepish

.....two prime ministers since then Lee Kwan Yew (Who is a brilliant leader)......

I take it they observe Internet posts also!? I'm just kiddin' you may genuinely support the Prime Minister.

So they have like an Elevator Pissing Task Force. I have to admit that is very strange, but who are we to critisize with our astronomical crime rate, right?

I'd bet money that their lives are alot happier than alot of Americans. I know I'd give up my right to not flush the toilet or urenals in order to live crime free. Good for Singapore!

[bobby_steeles]

Re: Singapore

Originally posted by aseepish
Owning a car for example - you must pay a 100% import tax, various fees, as well as purchase a "certificate of entitlement" - proof that you are financially able to own a car. This costs around US $25,000. All together, what would be a $10,000 car in north America costs about $50,000 here.

this is why that little bastid deserved the caning...

[aseepish]

Three cheers for PM Goh!

YES! I WHOLE HEARTEDLY SUPPORT PM GOH AND THE PEOPLE'S ACTION PARTY! HE'S DOING A GREAT JOB!

(Whew! That was a close one!)

-Tony

[TracyKarate]

After watching the international news the last few days, a bullet proof vest in Canada does not sound so absurd wouldn't you say?

[YeLLa-TiGeR]

Those frenchies in Quebec? Its like another world away for Ontario residents. Damn whiners...I didnt even hear about it til last night.

[E1am]

aseepish,

"their frequency is much lower than say Seattle." That's funny you'd use Seattle as an example because it's one of America's safer big cities. Although Washingtonians do love their guns.

As for Singapore it's a great city. I went there last summer and it was a nice break from Tokyo's endless concrete jungle. The Japanese are terrible urban planners. Very little greenery. People go on about Sing being sterile and oppressive but that is so exaggerated. A city with that kind of diversity could never be sterile. They do have strict laws, many of which I don't agree with, but I have to admit it works. Creating a city full of polite Chinese people maybe history's greatest achievment . For people who are traveling in SE Asia I deffinitely recommend a stop in Sing. Even if it's just to eat. Especially if it's to eat. And hey, if imported beer costs $10 (is that US or Canadian, BTW) then don't drink imported beer.

[aseepish]

S'pore

E1am,

I agree with you there! Singapore is a beautiful city in terms of its greenery and diversity. I'll also add that the food is absolutely amazing! Chinese, Malay, and Indian food is considered local, plus we get world class Thai, Japanese, Indonesian, Korean, and various European restaurants. At the local "coffee shops" a decent meal can be had for about US $2 - a big plate of noodles or curry ckicken. I think that might have something to do with why there aren't too many complaints about the government! The food is what I'm going to miss the most about this place once I've left.

$10 per beer is Singapore dollars, maybe US $7, CAN $9 (Give or take). You can get local stuff for half that, but to me that's still pretty expensive.

-Tony

[E1am]

Yeah, that is pretty expensive for a beer. Japan is worse. You can pay US$7 to $10 for an import and at least $4 for local beers (in a bar). It's so easy to drop one or two hundred dollars on a night out on the piss. I think Hong Kong had the highest prices I've ever seen for beer though. I remember paying about US$12 for a pint of Fosters (which is sh!t beer anyway). In two and a half years in Japan I've probabay spent at least $20,000 on booze.

[aseepish]

Booze

E1am,

I was wondering what I did with that $10,000! I couldn't figure it out until now. Japan is nuts though. I've heard horror stories about prices (of everything!) in Tokyo and Osaka. I'm sure that the smaller cities are only marginally cheaper.

I'm off to Seoul next week for a couple of days. My friends tell me that booze is cheap there...

-Tony