Realities of knife fighting

[bobby_steeles]

Originally posted by Ryu (non-working password

As far as solo training, I use real knives, and will either just "shadow box" or cut dummies, meat, cartons filled with liquid (you want to have a knife that your hand will not slip on if it gets wet)

Take care,
Ryu

and you called me a wierdo?
... i'm guessing you don't have a girlfriend.

[Water Dragon]

Ahhh, but you should see when he gets a hold of a Thanksgiving Turkey!

[LEGION]

BJJ Knife defenses?

Myself and some of my friends that have trained in Kali, Jujitsu, and Bjj have been sparring with rubber knives, and eventually we encounter a situation where the 'fight' goes to the ground, though this happens far less often than our regular sparring (the guy going for the takedown usually gets 'stabbed' in the neck). When it goes to the ground, if we are going armed attacker vs. unarmed defender, 9 times out of 10 the defender is 'killed'. We have figured out a few disarms and counters where you can get the guy with the knife to stab himself, if he doesn't drop the knife, by using a kind of keylock type motion based on our knowledge of stand up jujitsu knife defenses. I've seen some interresting stuff on the web about dog-brothers stick grappling, but most of it is only relevant to sticks. Have any of you ever seen any BJJ knife defenses, specifically for groundfighting? If so let us know about it.

[Ryu (non-working password]

WaterDragon,
LOL

[Shimora]

There are numerous knife defenses from both the gaurd and the mount position. Obviously the person with the knife has the advantage but it is not impossible to pin the knife holding limb even from your back. The main aim of course is to get the knife from the attacker and kill him with it. If you are more humane, disable him and then slash his tendons at the rear of his ankles. That slows them down a bit.

[Ryu (non-working password]

Hounddog,
Shadow boxing with a knife is referred to as "karenza" in Filipino MA. Just like shadow boxing in regular boxing you work on footwork, body mechanics, and flow. It's a good way to train actually. Thinking it's not is like saying that the boxer's shadowboxing is not as well. Doesn't make much sense. If I pick up a knife and know how to use it, and you do not, I'll win. Grappling doesn't solve every problem.
Plus, the bulk of my knife work is usually geared to full contact sparring. The only thing to understand about that though is the respect for the blade has to be strong. The intimidation is not really there in a sparring atmosphere.

(wanted to add here that I do NOT think of myself as a knife fighter. Knife fighting in real life isn't usually about two armed people dueling, it's someone shanking you when you're not looking, etc. Plus engaging in any kind of knife on knife fight is seen more as a willing felonious activity, and NOT self defense. Even though I train in knife fighting, I do not condone, like, or think I am "good" at it.)

Take care,
Ryu

[aseepish]

Knife grappling fun

My instructor used to randomly toss a training knife nearby when we were rolling. The person on top (mounted or in the guard (esp. open guard) got to the knife first. The best thing for the person on the bottom was usually to get to his/her feet and take off. It really helps your awareness - sometimes guys wouldn't even notice the knife beside them.

-Tony

[hounddog]

Ryu,

I believe in the value of shadow boxing and sure, shadow knifing will help you with you knife fighting. Its just that if it comes down to going toe to toe in a knife fight aren't you better off running away or pulling out a gun? If you have time to pull out your knife, you have time to pull out your gun.

I'd think you're better served to train at the gun range and also to train wind sprints than dance around in your garage with a knife stabbing at meat and milk cartons.

A gun kind of solves all the what if situations. What if you're facing a stick instead of a knife? What about a baseball bat, a throwing star, a sword, a tazer, pepper spray, flame thrower???? What the hell is a knife going to do for you?
-hounddog

[Lithp]

That's why I drive a tank. Nobody cuts me off, and if they have a gun, I blow up everything within a 20 ft radius of the guy. Why go to the gun range when you can drive a tank?

[bobby_steeles]

hounddog, you have just helped me reconsider the way i look at the martial arts. from now on all my training goes out the window. i will devote all that time to doing "wind sprints" so that i can run away from any future fight! LOL
ps- in addition to cutting the meat in his garage, ryu has also been known to slap the salami and bop the baloney while preparing for competition.

[Lithp]

LOL!

[hounddog]

If you can afford a tank, more power to you.

[Lithp]

More Power!!! Grunt, grunt

[Mik_36]

Hey Ryu,

You KNOW that I give you respect. But I think Hounddog has a partial point. If you get in a situation where you have to use deadly force I think the gun is definately the way to go. I mean if your going to get in trouble for use of a deadly weapon it is just as well that it be a gun as opposed to a knife.

Naturally you never want to put yourself in any of those situations and I would only use deadly force if myself or my family were in immediate danger. However getting busted for carrying a concealed gun is alot more punishable by the law than carrying a knife, so that would be the other side of the arguement.

I would recommend that you keep on with your knife training in case you ever have to use it on the street (the up side here is you'll never go to jail for carrying a concealed gun), the down side is if your opponent has a gun.

However I would still recommend a firearm for house protection, and going to the range and squeezin off a few at least once a week. I personally go to target practice 2-3 times a week sometimes more (that is all I have time for, otherwise I would spend all my spare time at the gun club).

My point is your knife skills are great for the street (i.e. you never have to worry about goint to jail for having it) but the law is behind you if you want to have a gun for home protection and I would strongly urge everyone to exercise that right.

Of course the need for the knife is not there if you have a permit to carry a firearm, but those can be hard to get and you can't get them everywhere, so I'm not addressing that.

I also think when your talking about a knife fight running should be considered, if at all possible, this is just common sense, why risk your life and/or jail if it is not absolutely necessary, or course sometimes it is necessary.

There is also the value of practicing knife fighting just for the enjoyment (if your into that kind of thing) even if you don't think you will ever use it. There are lots of guys at my gun club like that (with guns not knives)(suburban guys etc. who will probably never have to use their weapon in self defence, but they just enjoy guns, and that has its own value).

Me personally, I have never had to shoot anyone, and once this recession is over and I start my career and move out of my current neighbourhood I probably never will have to, but I still enjoy my weapons and there is always the possiblity that I will have to use them, you never know in this day and age.

But I don't think this is the case (never having to use his knives in defence) with Ryu I think he believes there is the possibility that he may have to use them someday, and that is something that each individual must judge according to his own circumstances.



Hey Ryu check your private mail on here bud.

[bobby_steeles]

Originally posted by Mik_36
There are lots of guys at my gun club like that (with guns not knives)(suburban guys etc. who will probably never have to use their weapon in self defence, but they just enjoy guns, and that has its own value).

how do you know that? they may want to commit suicide one day.