Training in more than One Style At Once

[John_T]

I've been doing martial arts for 8 years already (but stopped for a year or so) and was thinking of learning a few new styles.
What is your opinion in learning more than one style at once (I've got plenty of MA background already though, if that makes a difference)? I've heard some people say it's not such a good idea, yet I don't see the problem as I already did (I know Karate and Wing Chun).

Yet maybe I'm just not good enough to notice any problems

[jubaji]

Go for it.

[chillaplata]

Why not train a grappling art to complement your striking styles? You could try judo, BJJ, SAMBO, or submission wrestling.

[grappler-jordan]

I train in Kenpo and in Submission Wrestling and I think it works great together, in particular these arts provide me with exactly what I love about Martial Arts as a whole... Also it helps to keep me well rounded as a fighter and keeps me focused more on fighting and less on the "sport" aspect of any individual art.

[Tom Yum]

I train in Kenpo and in Submission Wrestling and I think it works great together, in particular these arts provide me with exactly what I love about Martial Arts as a whole... Also it helps to keep me well rounded as a fighter and keeps me focused more on fighting and less on the "sport" aspect of any individual art.

Interesting combination.

Kenpo came from kenpojujitsu if I'm not mistaken - an art that was obviously a complete art in terms of fighting range. Somewhere, somehow it became a striking/infighting art and lost alot of its grappling.

Do you train in CSW or something else? Have you been able to combine the two?

[Tant01]

I've been doing martial arts for 8 years already (but stopped for a year or so) and was thinking of learning a few new styles.
What is your opinion in learning more than one style at once (I've got plenty of MA background already though, if that makes a difference)? I've heard some people say it's not such a good idea, yet I don't see the problem as I already did (I know Karate and Wing Chun).

Yet maybe I'm just not good enough to notice any problems

You will do as you like (I hope?) ... As for cramming the complexities and PRACTICE of two or more distinctly different styles, I'm gonna say it's probably not in your best interests. If you have good instructors they should give you plenty to think about in between your lessons.

I'd rather have double the workout in one style.

[peppi]

If you reed the bio of most famous MA teachers you will notice that nearly all of them practice more than one style.
On a novice level systems look different but if you see the advanced forms you will be struck by the similarities they share.

[Tant01]

True that...

If you reed the bio of most famous MA teachers you will notice that nearly all of them practice more than one style.
On a novice level systems look different but if you see the advanced forms you will be struck by the similarities they share.

With all due respect... The most famous MA teachers have spent YEARS and years learning to master one style then another.

My point is that learning multiple styles at a basic level may make you a MIXED martial artist but also more difficult to MASTER anything...

[peppi]

My point is that learning multiple styles at a basic level may make you a MIXED martial artist but also more difficult to MASTER anything...

Strongly agree my friend. May be I should have said the modern teachers I know. I have noticed for example famous coaches with high ranks in karate to have a black belt in supplementary martial art like jiu jitsu.

When I started wing chun 14 years ago I did only the shifting for two weeks
and nobody of the higher ranked students or the teacher paid me any attention but I was stubborn and stupid and did not quit

[TigerClaw]

I've been doing martial arts for 8 years already (but stopped for a year or so) and was thinking of learning a few new styles.
What is your opinion in learning more than one style at once (I've got plenty of MA background already though, if that makes a difference)? I've heard some people say it's not such a good idea, yet I don't see the problem as I already did (I know Karate and Wing Chun).

Yet maybe I'm just not good enough to notice any problems

You should seriously consider learning more traditional Kung Fu styles. Kung Fu is among the most advanced fighting form on the planet in my opinion. Don't worry to much about grappling techniques, they are good to know as well. But learn more combat survival fighting as opposed to MMA sport type fighting. In the long run it will help you more in a real life situation. That is my opinion at least. I know some disagree.

If you are going to learn grappling and more ground fighting Kung Fu has this as well, but you have to search around more. Learn how to end a grappling situation quickly.

[chillaplata]

TC, with all due respect, I've got to disagree with you here about the importance of training grappling for self-defense. I know I'm going to rehash points that have been made a hundred times before, but it's a lazy Sunday afternoon so here goes:

Let's initially agree, for the sake of argument, that taking your opponent to the ground is often not a good idea in a street fight. The fact remains that you could wind up on the ground for all sorts of reasons. You could trip, you could be knocked down by a strike, or you could be tackled or taken down by an opponent determined to grapple. If you have not trained in a grappling art, you are in deep trouble in this situation. An attacker with even a little bit of grappling experience will be able to tie you up in knots and pound you. Even an attacker not skilled in grappling will be able to dominate you if he has a material size, strength or positional advantage (e.g. he landed on top of you).

Sure, you MAY be able to take your attacker out with a well-placed shot to the eyes, groin, throat, etc., but there are several reasons you wouldn't want that to be your only option:

(i) You will have to land a precision strike, which you probably have not had the opportunity to train realistically against a resisting opponent, in the heat of battle and from a bad position;

(ii) You may not be able to strike at all if your opponent is effectively controlling your arms and legs;

(iii) If you miss your eye-throat-groin strike, your opponent may be angered enough to return the favor, and he will have a better chance of connecting as he is striking from the superior position;

(iv) If you land your eye-throat-groin strike and cause your opponent serious injury, you may face civil and criminal liability if your response is later judged not to be reasonably proportionate to the threat.

So even if your strategy in every fight is to duke it out on your feet, you need at a bare minimum to train takedown defenses and escapes. You also need to train clinchwork, as any fight can quickly wind up in a clinch.

Further, there are self-defense situations in which taking your opponent to the ground MAY be a good strategy. Suppose you are cornered by an attacker who appears to be a dangerous striker. Clinching or taking him down may well be your best option. Of course, you are sacrificing mobility and opening yourself up to the risk of getting stomped if he has friends nearby. But any fight plan has risks, and the risks of grappling with a superior striker will often be far less than the risk of standing up with him and getting KTFO.

Mind you, I am not denigrating the effectiveness of CMA or trying to start yet another endless TMA vs. MMA debate. I will readily acknowledge that CMA, properly trained, can be devastatingly effective in the ring or on the street. My point is simply that it makes much more sense for the OP to round out his martial arts skills by training a grappling art than to train in yet another striking art when he already has significant karate and WC experience.

In regard to your suggestion that the OP train grappling within a CMA system, my bias would be toward training BJJ, judo or wrestling simply because (i) these arts have been verifiably proven effective time and time again, both in the ring and out, (ii) I am not aware of any CMA systems that emphasize groundfighting (though they may exist -- I don't claim to be a CMA expert), and (iii) I think quality instruction in BJJ, Judo or wrestling would be much more readily available (as most CMA schools do not seem to emphasize groundfighting). I recognize that chin na techniques can be effective, but my understanding is that these have to do mainly with clinchwork, wristlocks and the like, not with groundfighting. If you are aware of CMA schools that train Chinese styles of groundfighting, please post links as I would be intrigued to read about them.

[chillaplata]

I hate to add to an already very long-winded post, but I should have also noted the obvious self-defense applications of throwing techniques...

[TigerClaw]

TC, with all due respect, I've got to disagree with you here about the importance of training grappling for self-defense. I know I'm going to rehash points that have been made a hundred times before, but it's a lazy Sunday afternoon so here goes:

Let's initially agree, for the sake of argument, that taking your opponent to the ground is often not a good idea in a street fight. The fact remains that you could wind up on the ground for all sorts of reasons. You could trip, you could be knocked down by a strike, or you could be tackled or taken down by an opponent determined to grapple. If you have not trained in a grappling art, you are in deep trouble in this situation. An attacker with even a little bit of grappling experience will be able to tie you up in knots and pound you. Even an attacker not skilled in grappling will be able to dominate you if he has a material size, strength or positional advantage (e.g. he landed on top of you).

Sure, you MAY be able to take your attacker out with a well-placed shot to the eyes, groin, throat, etc., but there are several reasons you wouldn't want that to be your only option:

(i) You will have to land a precision strike, which you probably have not had the opportunity to train realistically against a resisting opponent, in the heat of battle and from a bad position;

(ii) You may not be able to strike at all if your opponent is effectively controlling your arms and legs;

(iii) If you miss your eye-throat-groin strike, your opponent may be angered enough to return the favor, and he will have a better chance of connecting as he is striking from the superior position;

(iv) If you land your eye-throat-groin strike and cause your opponent serious injury, you may face civil and criminal liability if your response is later judged not to be reasonably proportionate to the threat.

So even if your strategy in every fight is to duke it out on your feet, you need at a bare minimum to train takedown defenses and escapes. You also need to train clinchwork, as any fight can quickly wind up in a clinch.

Further, there are self-defense situations in which taking your opponent to the ground MAY be a good strategy. Suppose you are cornered by an attacker who appears to be a dangerous striker. Clinching or taking him down may well be your best option. Of course, you are sacrificing mobility and opening yourself up to the risk of getting stomped if he has friends nearby. But any fight plan has risks, and the risks of grappling with a superior striker will often be far less than the risk of standing up with him and getting KTFO.

Mind you, I am not denigrating the effectiveness of CMA or trying to start yet another endless TMA vs. MMA debate. I will readily acknowledge that CMA, properly trained, can be devastatingly effective in the ring or on the street. My point is simply that it makes much more sense for the OP to round out his martial arts skills by training a grappling art than to train in yet another striking art when he already has significant karate and WC experience.

In regard to your suggestion that the OP train grappling within a CMA system, my bias would be toward training BJJ, judo or wrestling simply because (i) these arts have been verifiably proven effective time and time again, both in the ring and out, (ii) I am not aware of any CMA systems that emphasize groundfighting (though they may exist -- I don't claim to be a CMA expert), and (iii) I think quality instruction in BJJ, Judo or wrestling would be much more readily available (as most CMA schools do not seem to emphasize groundfighting). I recognize that chin na techniques can be effective, but my understanding is that these have to do mainly with clinchwork, wristlocks and the like, not with groundfighting. If you are aware of CMA schools that train Chinese styles of groundfighting, please post links as I would be intrigued to read about them.

Hey, some good points and well thought out. One thing I can comment on is that when you use eye gouges or groin attacks etc they do not have to seriously hurt the opponent for the long run. They can be used with different pressures to escape and to wound the opponent enough to escape. This kind of thing would be acceptable in court as far as i know. The attacker would not have more than a red eye or a slightly sore groin. If you ripped his eyes out or crushed his groin to almost a death point or his throat, that may be different. But I asked a few polices officers about how much we are allowed to do in self defense. They seems to say you can do whatever is needed. If a man who is very large and aggressive attacks me and he is overpowering me and taking me to the ground. I do not know if he intends to seriously hurt me or even kill me. I believe to attack his vital points would be a viable resource. That is if he cannot be controled in other ways with other techniques and if he has extensive grappling abilities/ Remember if I pause for a moment in such a situation, he may snap my arm, or break my neck, or break my leg etc. I will move to escape as fast as I can and attack vital areas. But how much pressure I put depends on the situation. If he has a knife and is stabbing me on the ground, he is going to get close to death most likely.

[chillaplata]

Hi TC,

Yes, I agree that the law would in many circumstances view a groin kick or even eye gouge as a reasonable self-defense tactic, especially if you are trying to fight off a large, aggressive assailant and you did not initiate the violence. The point I was trying to make, which I think we can agree on, was that (i) you can never be sure what cops, prosecutors, judges or jurors will determine after the fact to be "reasonable" in a particular self-defense situation and (ii) in view of that uncertainty, we should each try to make sure we have available the widest possible range of defensive options.

[Marksmarkou]

Personally i see it like learning new languages. If you try to learn more than one at the same time it will get confusing, but if you learn one first and after a while when you have grasped the basics, go for another.