bjj and wrestling

[JadeDragon]

JD, I notice that your sig lists both a Gracie-Barra affiliate and another BJJ school. My school is a G-B affiliate as well, and we spend probably between a third to a half or the instruction time in most classes drilling stand-up grappling techniques (throws and takedowns, counters to headlocks and bearhugs, etc.). I'm very happy with that mix, as I think it helps me to become a much more complete grappler (especially as I have no wrestling or judo experience).

Has your experience been similar? Do you train more stand-up at the G-B school than at the other school?

My friend trains at a G-B school. He is a black belt under Carlson Gracie Jr. He lives in Lexington, Kentucky and travels to Chicago to trains. He has a school here where I used to train. I don't train regularly in BJJ anymore. I do occationally though. They do train stand up in the BJJ class but more from already on the ground situations.

[jubaji]

That makes sense -- if I'm understanding you correctly it would often take more skill and experience to control a fight and maintain the initiative INDIRECTLY (by trying to draw in your opponent and countering) than DIRECTLY (by constantly attacking). So you want to train the beginner to maintain the initiative by keeping constant pressure on the opponent. Then as he gains experience, he will learn to control the fight in more subtle ways.

There you go. And not because being "subtle" is a good in and of itself, but because at some point it may become a necessity.

[JadeDragon]

Everyone should have a good look at the above quote. True colors (so to speak).

I like how you changed my quote to mis-represent what I said. Do you have a reading comprehension problem? I stated that I was only saying those things because you keep insisting that I'm a racist. If I'm going to continually be accused of this after stating I'm not then I thought I would humor you and go along with your dillusional accuzations. I stated that by no means am I racist. Beleive what you want. Oncew again you have derailed another thread. Congradulations. I hope your proud of your self.

[jubaji]

I like how you changed my quote to mis-represent what I said.

I didn't misrepresent anything. You admitted that you used the term "BOY" as a racial epithet. Trying to spin your way out of it will fail as surely as your justificaiton for throwing a swastika around on the DL did.

[JadeDragon]

I didn't misrepresent anything. You admitted that you used the term "BOY" as a racial epithet. Trying to spin your way out of it will fail as surely as your justificaiton for throwing a swastika around on the DL was.

And what else did I say??? Do you need to go back to basic reading classes from first grade?? You apparentely only read what you want to read and disregard the rest. Tant I also said that I was only saying it to humor you since you keep insisting I'm a racist. I AM NOT A RACIST. I'm not the only one that thinks your going overboard with the insults and de-railing the threads off topic. Tant01 said so as well. For the sake of everyone else, let it go. If you want to PM me then that's fine insult away but let the threads be.

[jubaji]

Once again Jethro attempts the brilliant technique of proving he is not a racist by acting like a racist.

[pstevens]

I think you are missing something about those grapplers (unless they just weren't very good). I believe there is at least as much sensitivity, timing, balance, miai, etc. involved in wrestling as any other form of grappling, but if they happened to be much stronger and more aggressive than you (for example) you might not have seen that aspect of what they were doing because they could blow right through you. Two wrestlers that are fairly evenly matched will both be strong, fit, and aggressive. Those factors being similar, other factors become more decisive. At a high level of competition, a wrestling match is a fast, violent chess match that takes place on many levels. A lot of people find this level of wrestling boring to watch because they can't see everything that's going on. Throw someone into a match at such a level won't feel what's going on, they will just be aware of being brutalized.

There's a misconception between wrestling and BJJ; but in fact, they are both very similar. Realize that someone who continually trains grappling will develop sensitivity, pressure control, action-reaction and all the principles that apply to wrestling, BJJ and other grappling arts - provided they are training under a system that fosters these attributes. But regardless, IT WILL HAPPEN OVER TIME.

There are aggressive and non-aggressive "styles" of BJJ just as they exist in wrestling. In fact, a wrestler with limited BJJ training will look very similar to any BJJer. Just watch ADCC; if you didn't know who Tito Ortiz, Matt Hughes or other wrestlers were, you'd think they were just BJJ guys who had great takedowns and top control. At the higher levels, there's very little to distinguish between BJJ and a wrestler who has trained some BJJ.

Now, if the wrestler has never trained BJJ, then "yes" there will be obvious differences. The wrestler doesn't play the guard, although he knows it to some degree, and he doesn't have submissions. However, he can still roll you up given the opportunity.

ON A SIDE NOTE: Please call me Paul and not pstevens.

Paul

[jubaji]

Great post Paul!

[JadeDragon]

Once again Jethro attempts the brilliant technique of proving he is not a racist by acting like a racist.

If I'm Jethro then your Jed Clampet. You know, I'm really starting to hate your guts. Your a complete moron with your continual insults. All your doing is pulling all the threads down with your B.S. insults. You think your funny or something I guess but every thread has been de-railed becuase of YOU. You may not like or even agree with what I say about martial arts but that is no reason to insult and ridicule someone and screw up EVERY thread the way you have. YOUR obsession with me is making every one else suffer. I will almost bet that after you read this post you will not be able to resist the temptation to respond with your non-sense and insults. Maybe one day you will grow up and realize how fn' ridiculous you are with this obsession. I've seen 3 year olds behave better than you. Why don't you try setting an example of how to behave and act instead of misbehaving with put downs and insults. If you were my child and acted this way I would pull your pants down and give you a spanking your ass so that you couldn't sit down for a week. And then I would wash your mouth out with soap.

[jubaji]

You know, I'm really starting to hate your guts.

Oh, and I so wanted you to like me

I would pull your pants down and give you a spanking your ass so that you couldn't sit down for a week. And then I would wash your mouth out with soap.

I told you to keep your deviances to yourself.

[Sugamayne]

New poster I am a long time highly sucessful wrestler looking to expand my skill set to bjj I found the forum while trying to answer a question:

What things should I focus on as a wrestler to be sucessful in bjj competition?

and I wanted to comment on this threrad because its getting out of hand and from a 3rd party perspective it almost kept me from registering and contributing. Please don't make fun of my experience as a MA just want some helpful advice and things to think about while I train bjj.

Some things I'm expecting to have trouble adapting to:

competing with a Gi
attacking an opponent in guard
passing guard

Id also like to mention that I really enjoy bjj as a sport so far and I am looking forward to constructive input. Sorry I didn't formally introduce myself im kinda waiting to see what kind of response I get from my first post.

[Bjjexpertise@be]

New poster I am a long time highly sucessful wrestler looking to expand my skill set to bjj I found the forum while trying to answer a question:

What things should I focus on as a wrestler to be sucessful in bjj competition?

and I wanted to comment on this threrad because its getting out of hand and from a 3rd party perspective it almost kept me from registering and contributing. Please don't make fun of my experience as a MA just want some helpful advice and things to think about while I train bjj.

Some things I'm expecting to have trouble adapting to:

competing with a Gi
attacking an opponent in guard
passing guard

Id also like to mention that I really enjoy bjj as a sport so far and I am looking forward to constructive input. Sorry I didn't formally introduce myself im kinda waiting to see what kind of response I get from my first post.

If you're just looking for an easy way to win competitions as a wrestler, take them down and hold them for 5 minutes. Get your 2 points for your takedown and make it look like you''re staying busy for 5 minutes so you win by points.

If you're doing gi, you're definitely going to have to adapt to that, especially standing up. If you go against a guy who knows what he's doing you're going to get dragged around left and right with that gi.

[jubaji]

New poster I am a long time highly sucessful wrestler looking to expand my skill set .

Welcome. Tell us about your highly successful wrestling career.

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

Welcome. Tell us about your highly successful wrestling career.

Okay that was kinda creepy

[pstevens]

If you're just looking for an easy way to win competitions as a wrestler, take them down and hold them for 5 minutes. Get your 2 points for your takedown and make it look like you''re staying busy for 5 minutes so you win by points..

I see this from guys who aren't wrestlers. They get lucky with the takedown and just hold the guy until time runs out. The sad thing is that their coaches tell them to do this over and over again. While this strategy will win you some matches, it will not develop your game. I'd rather see people lose in a match where they were trying to advance position, then just ly there.

If you're doing gi, you're definitely going to have to adapt to that, especially standing up. If you go against a guy who knows what he's doing you're going to get dragged around left and right with that gi.

A lot of wrestlers I know enter no-gi and use their takedown skills to win matches. Once they get comfortable with no-gi they start to do gi. Actually, I've known people who've never switched to gi training. The gi has so many intangibles that some people don't want to bother with it.