Boxing, BJJ, Muay Thai

[BlazedClaw]

I've been taking boxing for the past 2 weeks and I plan on taking it for 1 to 2 years. I'm taking fighting for the fun of it and for self-defense. I plan on taking BJJ and Muay Thai after that. And once I get better I might try other martial arts like Kyukushin, Zen Do Kai, Kuk Sool Wan etc...

I'm taking boxing for the punching and movement, BJJ for the grappling and Muay Thai for the kicks. What do you think? Any other martial arts that are fun and good for street defense? And is practical and easy to learn. Tae Kwon Do and Hapkido are too traditional and the enviroment is with wimpy, and untough little kids. The moves were made for different reasons for example the flying kick was used to take someone off a horse and it's hard to catch a punch like in Hapkido. It was meant to catch a sword hand so I don't think those arts are good for me.

What do you think? Any other martial arts that are fun and good for street defense? And is practical and easy to learn. Please tell me if you think my plan for "Boxing>BJJ>Muay Thai>Other Arts" is good.

[chillaplata]

Boxing, BJJ and muay thai are a great combination. If it were me I would train BJJ and either Boxing or MT simultaneously, and then train the other striking art later, so that I would be building up a mix of striking and grappling skills from the beginning. On the other hand there is a reasonable case for starting with boxing and training the other arts sequentially (as you propose). It's ultimately a question of your preference and time available for training.

In any case training those arts will be more than enough to keep you busy for years -- I would concentrate primarily on them and not spread myself too thin pursuing others. That being said, if your main interest is self-defense you might want to consider supplementing those arts with two other kinds of training:

(i) Training in clinchwork, takedowns, takedown defense and throws. You may get a fair bit of this kind of training in your BJJ and MT classes, but if you're not you might want to consider taking a bit of Judo, combat submission wrestling, or sambo.

(ii) Training skills specifically for self-defense, by which I mean training to learn situational awareness, conflict management, weapons techniques (especially improvised weapon techniques if you don't plan to carry a weapon), disarms, and techniques for dealing with multiple attackers. For this kind of training you might consider training with Paul Vunak (or one of his instructors) or at a JKD Concepts school (no disrespect intended to other kinds of JKD schools -- I'm just not sure what they train). Filipino martial arts would also be a great choice for weapons training, although as Michael Wright and others have pointed out it can take years of training to become effective in these arts.

I believe Combat Sambo, Krav Maga, Combatives or RBSD might also be good choices for developing these kinds of skills, but I don't know much about these arts. My sense is that you would need to choose your instructor carefully as there are a lot of frauds and pretenders along with very experienced people who could teach you genuinely valuable skills. I think there are a lot fewer really bad Boxing, MT and BJJ instructors as competition tends to weed out the unqualified.

[WildWest.]

A good Hapkido school will teach you some good skills, but there are plenty of crap ones still stuck in the past. I use lots of Hapkido techniques for my job and they do work...well the right techniques in the right situations do!!

MT is a good style. Most western MT schools teach boxing along side so you don't need to go specifically to a boxing club to learn.

BJJ is obviously a great style. But definitely consider Judo, wrestling or Sambo/Combat Sambo as they all offer a lot.

However, none of these styles....with the exception of Combat Sambo, will teach you proper RBSD. To learn that you are going to need to find a specific school that specialises in it.

However, what is the likelihood of you getting into regular street fights? If it happens a lot then you need to take a look at yourself, who you hang out with, where you hang out and why you feel you must allow your ego to get you into such situations. Just because you might know how to fight, doesn't mean you must get into fights. If you can learn to avoid and de-escalate a confrontation then you are already exercising RBSD.

Self defence and self protection is a lot more than just learning fighting techniques.

[Guest]

However, none of these styles....with the exception of Combat Sambo, will teach you proper RBSD. To learn that you are going to need to find a specific school that specialises in it.

The only thing that teaches you reality based self defence is reality

Everything you do outside of that in a training environment is the development of attributes, and pressure testing those attributes to improve your reaction under stress.

Under that premise I would bet my house on Boxing, Muay Thai, BJJ and any other functional, alive, tested system.

[WildWest.]

By RBSD I'm referring to systems like Senshido, CQB, Kelly McCann, Mick Coup's C2 et al. I'm not having a go at sport based systems, in fact I encourage them, but they are different to a full on RBSD style.

I've done both but no longer really doing RBSD because I got what I needed out of it (could always learn more of course) and use the tools they suggest. I'm a front line police officer and have found RBSD to be of great help compared to just focusing on sport styles. RBSD does give you that little bit extra, usually soft skills or another application of your sport skills, which can make that bit of difference.

I'm not going to go into the whole RBSD vs Sport style debate as it's been thrashed over and over and over. I like both and to be fair couldn't give much of a shit what anybody says in theory about them because I know what has worked for me in reality and that's attributes of both.

[Guest]

I couldn't give much of a shit what anybody says

That's the end of that conversation then I guess

[WildWest.]

Hahaha!

Not really mate, I was trying not to turn the discussion into another RBSD vs MMA type thread.

I didn't mean to send a negative vibe with my post.

[Guest]

That's a good call and you're right, its the last thing we need.

I thought your second post made some strong points, I agree that ideally a combat sports approach needs to be supplemented with some Self Protection experience to make you rounded.

I was just a little nervous that your original post gave the impression to the OP that his chosen arts won't give him a grounding for reality. I think they are the most "real" arts a person could start with, but that's just me. )

[Tom Yum]

Tae Kwon Do and Hapkido are too traditional and the enviroment is with wimpy, and untough little kids. The moves were made for different reasons for example the flying kick was used to take someone off a horse and it's hard to catch a punch like in Hapkido.

I'm with Michael on starting off with the combat art first, if its an option.

Back in the day, most of those arts were rare and hard to get to (muaythai and brazillian jiujitsu for instance) and had no where near the marketing and television coverage that you have today.

In the early 90's, Black belt magazine use to have a 2" by 2" add tucked away in the back corner of the advert page for brazillian jiujitsu - what captured my attention was an endoresment Chuck Norris explaining that a man with 30 years experience in TKD can get taken down by a man with 1 year of brazillian jiujitsu training and an endoresment by Paul Vunak as well.

If you asked your average joe what brazillian jujitsu was, they'd have probably told you it was some kind of food. Muaythai? Some kind of exotic drink?

The equivalent of that was like trying to find a pukulan tjimande or tukong musool instructor today.

Speaking of tae kwon do and hapkido - go visit the instructor and his class. Tell him you want to learn from him via private lessons. Its going to cost you more, but tell him that you want to learn hoshinsool (Korean - self defense) rather than point sparring and he'll understand what you mean.

Old-school tae kwon do, tang soo do - have some nice open-handed strikes and intricate low-line kicking/sweeps not normally used in muaythai. Again, a good bag of tricks to add to your base.

Hapkido locking and finishing holds are quite good too.

[Tant01]

weapons and retention...

I'm with Michael on starting off with the combat art first, if its an option. Back in the day, most of those arts were rare and hard to get to ...- what captured my attention was an endoresment Chuck Norris explaining that a man with 30 years experience in TKD can get taken down by a man with 1 year of brazillian jiujitsu training.

The equivalent of that was trying to find a pukulan tjimande or tukong musool instructor today.

....Old-school tae kwon do, tang soo do - have some nice open-handed strikes and intricate low-kicking/sweeps not normally used in muaythai. Again, a good bag of tricks to add to your base.

Hapkido locking and finishing holds are quite good too.

Many Korean styles draw heavily from Jujutsu...

Good post TY.

[WildWest.]

That's a good call and you're right, its the last thing we need.

I thought your second post made some strong points, I agree that ideally a combat sports approach needs to be supplemented with some Self Protection experience to make you rounded.

I was just a little nervous that your original post gave the impression to the OP that his chosen arts won't give him a grounding for reality. I think they are the most "real" arts a person could start with, but that's just me. )

It's all good mate.

I guess it depends on your perception of reality and I certainly agree with you that the sport arts mentioned will give anybody a fantastic grounding. I guess the reality I might have been eluding to is the one where your opponent doesn't give crap that you're not mentally ready to fight and catches you by surprise, or doesn't care that you're injured or holding groceries or baby for example.

Bear in mind I don't believe any one style or system will prepare you for everything that life may throw at you! RBSD can simply assist you in developing a mental skillset for when you are simply dumped in the shit if you follow my meaning. Once you've developed a mental hardness then you can use all the physical skills that the sport arts specialise in.

However, in saying all that nothings perfect and what I've said is only a generalisation.

[Guest]

RBSD can simply assist you in developing a mental skillset for when you are simply dumped in the shit if you follow my meaning. Once you've developed a mental hardness then you can use all the physical skills that the sport arts specialise in.

But you see, that's the interesting point.

I think the mental and emotional strength you gain from stepping into a functional, combative arena where your skills are tested honestly against an alive, resisting opponent is worth far more than the scenario training and deadly techniques that you can never use or train with any meaning that I have found in RBSD.

One is based on faith, the other is based on results. I know which one has strengthened my confidence, but each person is different.

.....and I'm very conscious that we're starting the debate we said we wouldn't start!

[Tom Yum]

I think the mental and emotional strength you gain from stepping into a functional, combative arena where your skills are tested honestly against an alive, resisting opponent is worth far more than the scenario training and deadly techniques that you can never use or train with any meaning that I have found in RBSD.

One is based on faith, the other is based on results. I know which one has strengthened my confidence, but each person is different.

.....and I'm very conscious that we're starting the debate we said we wouldn't start!

I agree with you about the mental and emotional strength in the combat sports. Traditional arts deliver the goods when it comes to discipline, focus and development.

When TMA-ists reach higher ranks in some styles, they are expected to contribute to their art by developing more techniques: taking a concept and re-applying it, adding a new set of techniques to the art (weapons) or coming up with new drills to test them.

An example of this is how you might fight while entering, exiting your car, while at an ATM machine, while in the stall etc. Lots of tactical questions - what kinds of improvised weapons can you think of? Where would you strike?

I wouldn't say that RBSD is based purely off of faith considering the live drills concept is slowly replacing LARP.

Demonstrations in the TMA and RBSD lack the marketing cash of MMA and are unfortunately geared to attract, not necessarily deliver on the spot - but once you get deeper into the style, there's effective technique in it.

Combat sports deliver simple effective techniques in a short amount of time - their RBSD and TMA counter parts cannot do this because they are generalists, but in the long run they certainly can.

[WildWest.]

But you see, that's the interesting point.

I think the mental and emotional strength you gain from stepping into a functional, combative arena where your skills are tested honestly against an alive, resisting opponent is worth far more than the scenario training and deadly techniques that you can never use or train with any meaning that I have found in RBSD.

One is based on faith, the other is based on results. I know which one has strengthened my confidence, but each person is different.

.....and I'm very conscious that we're starting the debate we said we wouldn't start!

I don't disagree with your post as I believe you are correct.

And the "debate" is over!!!!

[ESC]

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