Gi BJJ is boring compared to NO-GI BJJ

[Bushido]

Do you agree that some gi-bjj guys tend to be to defensive in competition? It's soooooo boring! No-gi bjj is more alive, more dynamic and more real (to be applied on the street)! I know, I know, it is sport bjj!

What is, in general, the percentage of sport bjj and of self-defence bjj training in bjj schools? Do they always train to grab the gi?

We rarely practice with grabbing the gi. My bjj sparring is oriented toward self-defence: sometimes vs grappling, sometimes vs striking, but always based on reality.

Am I alone???

[Martial Artist]

Re: Gi BJJ is boring compared to NO-GI BJJ

Originally posted by Bushido
Do you agree that some gi-bjj guys tend to be to defensive in competition? It's soooooo boring! No-gi bjj is more alive, more dynamic and more real (to be applied on the street)! I know, I know, it is sport bjj!

I think that you are wrong on both things. Theres people that are defensive wearing a gi and without. It doesnt matter what they wear. It matters how they fight. And saying that No-Gi is more realistic is also wrong. When was the last time you got into a street-fight and you were both wearing nothing but some spandex shorts? So wearing the gi is more realistic becuase you have something to grab wearing a gi. And you also have something to grab when in a street-fightl.(We call these things Shirts, Shorts, Belts, ect... )

[Shrimp]

I train both gi and no-gi.

No-gi is definitely a faster game. Usually looser and sometimes sloppier, too.

I like both, and I think both are important for self defense.

[Bushido]

Of course there is a defensive game with or without the gi, this is obvious. What I'm saying is that some competitor are TOTALLY defensive, passive. THAT is boring to me. If you dont want to fight, stay home! They do a takedown and they stay in a defensive position, then, they stay there to the end on the match. The clock is winning the game. THAT is what I hate.

When I said "we rarely use the gi", I meant that we use the gi for some sweeps and reversals, some throws, but not much for chokes. IMHO the intensive use of the gi gives a false sense of reality: except for winter, people rarely wear heavy clothing allowing us to "work" with. After all, maybe I'm afraid to fall into the trap of "gi-conditionning"

[Americana]

I personally think no gi stuff is boring. I also don't think it's very realistic for "self-defense" or put it this way, it's as unrealistic as gi because people still do all kinds of crazy positions you wouldn't think of if there were striking. Finally, I think no gi is harder on your body. Because there's no gi to hang on to people tend to work on your neck alot.

[Twisted up]

no-gi

I train no-gi all the time but not wearing spandex shorts, I wear a tee shirt and shorts or sweat pants.

That is INFINITELY more realistic than wearing a gi because I don't see ANYONE walking around wearing so much loose, heavy material--unless they're in the South Pole!

I'll wear a gi TOP during the cooler months but, just because someone trains no-gi doesn't mean that they're only wearing SPANDEX. This is a common misconception that people have. It's just not that same as having a big, loose fitting gi top. It's very, VERY difficult to choke someone with tee shirt--believe me, we've tried and all we end up with a ripped, loosened collars.

That isn't very realistic anyway because the simplest counter to a gi choke are a couple of thumbs in the eyes!

I don't mind gi-style training, but I don't believe it to be the most realistic. It's good for developing some attributes but otherwise, I don't see justifying allot of time spent doing that.

We train in a gi top MAYBE 10 percent of the time. Sure, we're gonna get our asses kicked in a sport BJJ competition, but in vale tudo or the street, we'll hang with any of the gi-boys!

And as far as BJJ (gi or NO-gi) for realistic self-defense is concerned--it's a matter or relativity don't you think? It's certainly more realistic than most of what I find existing in the martial arts world and if someone can't figure out why this is, they're beyond help anyway, as they can't think for themselves!

Look at it this way, if I'm in a street fight, all that BJJ training has developed allot of attributes from the uncooperative training. Does that mean that I'm going to pull guard and wait for someone to make a mistake? HELL no! I'm going to be fighting like a M***** F*****! It's going to be thumbs in the eyes, elbows shots, digging into the throat, etc.. That will definitely set up armlocks, sweeps etc.. However, if I'd not had all of that "sportive" training, I wouldn't even be aware of those things--much less have the timing to know when to pull 'em off!

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is great for self-defense. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Another reason? Self defense is largely a myth anyway.........



Till next time

John


John

[Bushido]

You read my mind my friend, I agree 100%!!!

[Hookah Smokin Caterpillar]

The way people see fighting on the Internet is pretty funny

[Bushido]

The way people see other people's perceptions is also funny...

[Hookah Smokin Caterpillar]

It is pretty funny, I see how people have this whole dumbass view about fighting and I laugh.

Seriously, here's every anti-grappling fighting stance I've seen:

1. Rolling around on cement hurts - I'm sorry, but I've "fought" (Vale Tudo styles, not real fights) so many of my friends of all shapes and sizes; and guess what?! We don't roll around at all. I take them down and I'm on top. I don't see how that hurts you in any way on cement.

2. Training with/without a gi isn't realistic - if you really believe that then what are you going to train in, your Tommy Hilfiger clothes so you can see what its like to really get in a fight? Get real, this is just the clothes people wear when they're training. Using a collar choke isn't necessarily what I'd be using in a fight, more like sit on top and bang until they get KOed. The guys in my BJJ class can't get out of my mount, so how can the average guy?

3. Their friends jump in and you have no time to get off the ground - As a general rule, if you're getting jumped you run. You're telling me you can't get beat up if you can knock people out in one punch? What if a guy hits you with a bat, or a pipe, or tackles or yada yada yada? If you know BJJ at least if you fall to the floor you have a chance to get up and run away instead of taking your beating.

4. Never go to your guard in a fight - There's no reason to go to your guard, but wouldn't you rather have a great guard than not have a guard at all?

You can NEVER have the answer to all the questions. Why don't people just train and not think about what happens if this or that happen? While you guys are sitting there training for street fights, you'll still get your ass handed to you by me because I actually train BJJ instead of working on t-shirt chokes and the most "realistic" way possible.

[Twisted up]

Finally I see some great posts!

Hookah Smokin Caterpillar, Bushido (thanks): great posts!

It's is funny the way that people think fights are. Never fails to amuse me.

Once I had this "associate"/partner who was a karate guy. That guy was so far from having a clue that "light leaving from a clue wouldn't reach him for a few years"!! He thought he was "street" though. Clueless is what I'd call him.

Anway, we were rolling one night and he tried to make a point about ground-fighting (he was biased against it of course). It occurred that he rolled off of the mats onto the gym floor which is cement. He said, "Ya know, rolling on the ground really hurts/isn't comfortable/whatever" and I said, "Ya know, if I'm in a fight, the last thing I'm thinking about is how ****ing comfortable I am!" To which, he promptly shut the **** up (the bastard).

You fight to survive and to win, NOT BE COMFORTABLE! The traditional martial artists just will never figure this out. You go into their gyms and the only time they're sweating is when the AC is out! I guess it's allot easier on the ego to train the way they do--they'll never have to fight anyone. It's real easy to talk about how deadly you are when you never have to prove it!

This whole argument about the guard is full of shit as well. Damn right I wouldn't volunteer to fight from the guard---it's for EMERGENCIES, like: Someone wrestled me down (perhaps a better wrestler, they're out there ya know!) It's better to have a good guard than medical insurance (which you'll need if you DON'T have one). People just don't get it and never will--because they want to believe in their fantasies!

Someone once remarked, "By definition, half the population is of below average intelligence". This couldn't be more true. If this has ANY meaning to us, don't let the "other" half get to you, seek out the one's on YOUR side of the fence (regardless of which side that's on).

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu has at least proven itself by the fact that EVERYONE uses it's concepts to a certain extent in every NHB fight; If you had two kickboxers against each other in a NHB fight, and they went to the ground, you'd see one of them attempt a guard. Amazing but, many of those very fighters will talk garbage about the art.

The point is, to deny BJJ and it's effectiveness is DENIAL pure and simple!


Good training everyone!

John

[Hookah Smokin Caterpillar]

Re: Finally I see some great posts!

Originally posted by Twisted up
He said, "Ya know, rolling on the ground really hurts/isn't comfortable/whatever" and I said, "Ya know, if I'm in a fight, the last thing I thinking about is how ****ing comfortable I am!" To which, he promptly shut the **** up (the bastard).

Exactly! I was going to point that out in my post too but didn't feel like editing my post after sending it.

[Twisted up]

Hookah Smokin Caterpillar:


It's good to see that there are other people out there that have their heads on facing the right direction! I was starting to feel lonely.....


Good training to you!

John

[Americana]

Good posts Hooka and Twista. Alot of guys search for reasons not to train bjj because it can be very ego deflating. I know a guy who marches around a health club with a black belt, claiming to teach grappling. The truth is that he sucks. I've tapped him. He cannot pass the guard and he does not know what to do when he gets on the bottom. But he won't go train at a bjj school because "they're not good a leg locks!" What ever turns you on!

[Bushido]

Good for us, if they dont want to understand, let them live in their illusionnary world! lol! I train for the fun of it and for self-defence, to preserve my life, some people prefer to preserve tradition!

It seems that my words are misunderstood but anyway. When I grapple, I tried to take position in a way to protect myself from strikes, gouges, ect. I'm not saying that bjj is bad, of course not! Maybe Twisted Up will agree but, I think sport bjj can gives you bad habit like forgetting strikes and so. When I grapple, I keep that in mind. This is not excuses, no ego-trip, noe fear of sport bjj player, it is just my opinion.

And please (not you Twisted Up), no "I would kick your ass" attitute, this is stupid!

Peace!