Discussion of posted technique - Thai Clinch to Hip Throw

[Tim Mousel]

Hi,

I've added a new technique which includes photos and a movie. Here's the direct link:

http://www.defend.net/techniques/july19/thaiclinch1/

Please use this thread to discuss any questions or comments you have about this technique.

Hope some of you find it useful!

Tim

[hounddog]

This is great. Very much appreciated!

hD

[dan downard]

Is that hip throw right?I dont think you should have your opponant over your back on a hip throw.If you step out with the forward foot you will keep the momentum going while keeping him off your back.That way he stays in the hip area.If he gets a foot down to try and stop the throw you just sweep it and continue.In the pics you can see his left arm is in position to take her neck and just wrap his legs on the way down.With the guy on her back like that,I see her giving up a rear naked to the guy.


That is refering to a choke.So save the comments!

[Goddess]

I have his right arm securely clinched tight to my chest and my left arm around his neck, thus preventing him from trying to apply any choke. Plus, he feels at no time capable of attempting such a manevuer. The throw is quick and he hasn't time to climb my back. I have him off balance and thrown before he could do that. The video shows is shown slower than real time for the sake of the internet.

[dan downard]

I dont know why,but I keep getting an error message when I try to play the video.I was looking at pic 4 .The left arm goes around the neck and the left leg goes in for a hook to stop the throw.
But,like you say if done fast enough.......
Hey,how about that?Every time you show a technique,show the counter to it also.

[Goddess]

Dan, are you sure you have the right viewer installed?

Windows Media Player. http://windowsmedia.com/download/download.asp
[

[dan downard]

I do have windows media player.I just keep getting an error message.But then I am not all that computer literate.So I may have messed up the installation.

[Mako]

Tim and Goddess...

Thanks! Very much appreciated. I look forward to more in the future! Tim, I know you're a very experienced MT guy, so I can't wait to see more "clinch" stuff.

Dan,

The hip throw looks good to me. Her hip is "through" it's not like she's center-to-center w/him. If you go out much more w/your foot it becomes more of a "trip" and is harder to pull off if your opponent is much bigger or stronger than you. Plus, it's not like she's going for Ippon.. the technique is just delivering the guy to the ground. (in the end, kesa gatame is a WHOLE lot better than being in the orignial, MT clinch, position!)

[dan downard]

I just have developed a total paranoia about letting anyone on my back even for a second.BJJ has ruined me that way.I may be wrong in the way I am thinking,but my oldest brother is a brown in judo I know he would very easily take the back in this move.I've seen him do it again and again.Against other browns and blacks in competition.Even in a turtle position I wouldnt roll my opponant over my back for the same reason.If I remember right,I think it was Rick Williams that told me that he loves guys to do that to him.He called it an invitation to a choke.I am sorry if I am being critical about this technique.It is one that works against lower level guys.I just keep thinking about Pat Smith attempting this on Royce and where he ended up.

[Water Dragon]

Variations

From pic 4, Goddess could drive her right leg back into what looks like a Karate front stance. This would add a trip to the throw and use the top of the thigh close to the hip joint as the fulcrum.

From pick 2, Goddes could stick her right arm under Tony's left arm pit so that the crease of her elbow is in his arm pit. This creates a handle for her to throw from. FYI, if using this variation it becomes important to pull Tony's right arm with your left hand.

[Oldskulbus]

Originally posted by dan downard
I just have developed a total paranoia about letting anyone on my back even for a second.BJJ has ruined me that way.I may be wrong in the way I am thinking,but my oldest brother is a brown in judo I know he would very easily take the back in this move.I've seen him do it again and again.Against other browns and blacks in competition.Even in a turtle position I wouldnt roll my opponant over my back for the same reason.If I remember right,I think it was Rick Williams that told me that he loves guys to do that to him.He called it an invitation to a choke.I am sorry if I am being critical about this technique.It is one that works against lower level guys.I just keep thinking about Pat Smith attempting this on Royce and where he ended up.

I'm with Dan on this one. I don't really like hip throws that much. They are way easy to counter for an experianced martial artist and you are giving the guy your back. Goddess says she is doing the move fast but all the attacker needs to do is to stop trying to clinch her and block her hips from moving across before frame three.
Tim & Goddess this is a really great idea!

[Karlinhos]

danny - i agree with goddessita on this one, the opponent CAN'T get a rear naked while she's doing that move.

goddessita - one little extra thing you guys could have done was after throwing the guy to the floor, instead of just pushing his right am out of the way to apply the "over-under", push the guy's right arm down and secure it between your legs. by pushing it out of the way and not securing it, it still leaves you open to possible and unecessary punches to the left side of your face.

just a thought...

thoughts?

[duchman]

dan,
ofcourse can the throw be blocked, youre opponent will have to make a tabai saki(sp?) but is very hard to get a rear naked from here.
in a gi grappling match go can aply about a million gi chokes, but in no gi, i'ts better to throw , or take a better clinch position, side bear hug with an arm IMHO. but in any situation you have to block it/step away, or you will fly to the air.

goddes/tim,
IMHO
1 in the thai clinch you should never look down, you can't keep youre neck/head strait, to avoid the knees from the clich.

2 her hip is to high to throw.

3 instead of punching him, she could finish him with the punch choke

4 the kesa gatame could be locked up much tighter

[Water Dragon]

Yes, but remember...

The throw is being executed from a Thai clinch. This means the head has probably been shaken and the other guy is disoriented. Also, Goddess just needs to squat more to get better leverage. You can learn to "hit" with your butt this way to break the balance even more.

[Water Dragon]

One more thing...

Great idea to use a Thai clinch to set up the throw. I never would've thought of that.