Technique Question: Defending Overpowering Submissions

[GuardMaster]

What your take on defending against an opponent destined on overpowering his submissions onto you? It could be armbars, chokes, anything really.

I seem to be lost when grappling powerlifters with little technique. They overpower position on me, and then they overpower a submission hold even if I'm holding my arms in tight. If I try to bridge out of mount or in general try to fight back I leave openings making my options even worse, and get overpowered again.

Here's a typical examples:

Face competitive powerlifter who has one or two techniques and who looks from all perspectives like a white belt. He end s up mounting me and going for hammer lock (keylock). I resist holding my hand in tight, but to no avail. He simply overpowers it on. If i try to counter in any way I just make it worse.

Any tips?

[dan downard]

If he is that much bigger than you and is getting mount that easily I would have to think you should be more concerned with your escapes.He already has position.Position is everything.I would be more concerned with not being in bad position.If he gets position and is that much stronger than you a submission is inevitable.Once you are in that bad position ,you have to work like a mad man to ompa, sweep,or work subs to keep him off balance and take away his ability to work on you at his leisure.
Dont worry about the submission.Just tap and start over.Work on position.Try this,ask him to work with you.Wrestle for position.Once someone gets a superior position then stop.Wait 15 seconds,then start again.Then work on defending the sub or escaping.Sometimes,losing position makes you feel your already defeated. Just a suggestion.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Just keep training.

[Lacrymosa]

Here's a tip, but it's really only intended to buy some time while you decide what the hell to do......

...if you have a gi on.....grab your/his belt for dear life.

I've had that problem a few times when I was rolling with this wrestler/weightlifter type......and he would always take my arm the same way when I was starting out. He would "American Lock" me to death.....same move.....over and over, but my arms weren't brawny enough to fend him off.

Suddenly, I was able to fend him off by getting a death grip on his belt. My grip wasn't too strong, but you'll be surprised how much time I could buy while he was working on ripping my arm off. About 75% of the time, I would "snake" out of the mount while he was busy with my arm.

I agree 100% to what was said earlier here.....at white belt, you're only as good as your escapes. It's going to be hard, with little experience, fighting off a muscular dude, but you'll be damned sure that your escapes will be more crisp. Keep working on it, man......holding on to his gi isn't the best tactic in the world, but it'll help you both...

It'll help him look for something else that works (and find some other way to finish you)......and it'll also give you a little confidence against such a large opponent.

[bear]

Lac, one problem with that move is if there is striking involved. If the guy is mounted he still needs a base. If he is fooling with your arms look to elbow escape, his hands will have to help him keep the position. Throw in the roll when you can, most importantly like dan said is keep him from mounting in the first place. Work on preventing the mount. If you know the guy is strong or heavy or whatever pay attention to keeping him away from areas where he can use that to his advantage. Work on preventing the mount in a private with your instructor and focus on getting better at that for the next while and the next thing you know he won't be mounting anymore.

[Lacrymosa]

This is true, Bear

Of course, I face BJJ in a more "sport" perspective than anything else, so thanks for pointing that out.

But I will agree that escapes and prevention are the way to go.

[Mr. Miyagi]

LOL Lach!!! If a guy is mounted on you and you hold his belt won't he just choke you out? Gotta protect that neck also! Those big strong guys are a problem, especially when you are in the early stages of white belt! There are guys out there that could sub me using strength with can openers, chokes, and keylocks, without even passing my guard back then! Things change as you become more proficient with the game.

[festiva]

if he can take you down get position and submit then you need to train more the sub is only and really only a consequence of proper position so hes got you beat all the way ...hes just better train .....and train again ..otherwise it should be easy for you to reverse beginners tend to lose and lose badly against a good bjjer regardless of weight..

[Lacrymosa]

Originally posted by Mr. Miyagi
LOL Lach!!! If a guy is mounted on you and you hold his belt won't he just choke you out? Gotta protect that neck also! Those big strong guys are a problem, especially when you are in the early stages of white belt! There are guys out there that could sub me using strength with can openers, chokes, and keylocks, without even passing my guard back then! Things change as you become more proficient with the game.

Miyagisan! Konichiwa!

I meant more of the lines of grabbing your belt (belt, gi...anything you can get a firm grip on) once he starts struggling with your arm. I used to roll with this 240 pound behemoth of a weightlifter and he would ALWAYS go for the same move he saw on TV......"entangled" arm lock from the side mount.

At first, he got it easily. Torgo grab arm........Torgo struggle with arm.......Torgo lock arm. He was too strong for my little bitty arm to fight off with strength. After getting tired of tapping like this all the time, I took a death grip on my belt and LO! No matter how hard he tugged, he couldn't break my grip....which forced him to try something else.

Isn't that the whole point of BJJ? While you're novice, you have a limited repertoire and basically stick to the move or two that works for you. Despite his fierce wrestling background and domination of position, he had one technique in his arsenal that could finish me.

Once I took that move away, he was forced to try something else we learned in class. Eventually he got better at finishing with a choke.

As far as the mount, I woudn't probably hold onto the belt very often, unless he was EXCLUSIVELY going for the same armlock. I'm not saying it's a very effective, but it works if you want him to finish you with something ELSE for a change.

I KNEW I would have some hecklers on this advice......I just knew it! But you can't pick on duchman forever, I guess But hey, that tactic makes perfect sense to me........especially since I'm a friggin' white belt.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Lach, in my experience the best way to keep from being finished by a guy that has position on you is to keep active: if the guy is in side control on you keep your hips turned towards him, push him away, try to jam your inside leg under, try to throw your outer leg over, and in the mount just keep grabbing his arm, bridging, and pushing his hips back with your elbows. The important thing is to keep busy. Also, turtling when you know someone is going to get passed your guard is a good way to avoid the side mount. If the guy is that much bigger than you he will probably get you anway (like Sperry subbing Royler) but maybe guys shouldn't roll together if they're not relatively the same size?

[sccr06]

Yeah, some good advice here from the guys on counters to brawns-over-brain. Grabbing the belt is probably the best one but there are 2 other unconventional options. One is to improve your flexibility. There was a time (no longer!) when a guy could torque my arm behind my ear and if I relaxed I could bear it and escape or wait him out. Now I am less flexible but I went the other route; I worked on my arm strength and now the extra power gives me a bit more time to work a reversal before I have to tap.

[Ern-Dog]

counter

When "big boy" goes for his keylock he's putting 75% of his weight on the side of the arm that he's attacking. You should practice bucking your hips up then using your free arm/hand to roll him to that side. Make sure to hip up FIRST, and not do a combonation of bucking up and rolling at the same time. You want to create as much space as you can. If all else failing and you can reverse to guard, you've created enough space to wiggle out the back door. Hope this helps.

[Lacrymosa]

Miyagisan,

I know the escapes you're talking about now, but before, when I was still struggling with escapes, I used the "belt" move to keep from tapping to the same move all the time. Not exactly the best move in the world (especially since I'm adequate at escapes now), but early in the game it was useful.

[GuardMaster]

Holding the belt

Lac: Thanks for the tips on holding the belt before working an escape. I think that will work the best.

All the other advice sounds like typicall bjj counters which still leave my arms open to his overpowering submissions, which mean instant tap out! Ouch!

The belt hold at least buys a few seconds, and puts his mind back on ripping off my arm so I can concentrate on escapes.

GuardMaster

[Lacrymosa]

Like I said, the belt hold isn't a sure thing....but you'll find it less and less necessary to use the better you get at your escapes. In the long run, it'll make your large rolling partner better too, since he'll have to try another submission instead.

At this time, after a few years of rolling, I hardly grab my belt at all, anymore.