what is the best martial arts for me to learn?

[KenJeet]

To answer your questions, please read below:

Szczepankiewicz, in response to resorting to gross motor skills in a streetfight, for the most part, that is correct. But, let me just give you a little bit of information on Kenpo and its intended purpose. When Ed Parker created Kenpo he wanted it to be a street effective system based off of Chinese Boxing and be able to cope with fighting that is prevalent on the street today. He was against the Japanese systems' philosophy of one strike on kill. He was a practical guy that had been in many altercations in the Kalihi district of Hawaii, which was an extremely tought neighborhood. He had done boxing, judo and Jujutsu so he knew what he was against. That being said, he based his system off of ideas instead of set in stone techniques. He would have never told you "the way you are doing that technique is wrong, or this is the way to the technique." He would show what he called an idea against lets say a right cross and tell you okay slip the cross as you parry and strike the opponent's bicep with the knuckles of your other hand. Can anyone notice the filipino influence of gunting? If you were to tell him what if I can't for some reason get the bicep he would tell you "what would you do then?" He taught a system of over kill, or as we like to call it over skill, that teaches it practicioners to just flow with motion and continue striking vulnerable points on the body until the opponent drops. He wanted his system to be based on more of conflict ending premise rather than a trading blows kind of system such as kickboxing. In that sense, he wanted the same as what Bruce Lee wanted for Jeet Kune Do, strike him first, strike him hard and don't trade blows. His strikes were not to soft pinpoint areas but allowed margin for error and then followed up with more strikes. You do not see Kenpo typically in KI because it is not based on the premise of trading blows but ending a conflict quick and efficiently. I think Peyton Quinn and Mark Macyoung are to tough guys and have nothing bad to say about them.

[jobber-d]

jenkeet: from what you've been saying, kenpo seems to be a very useful basic style on which you would use to build other styles with. Keep in mind that I, like many other people, will not have the required time or dedication for more than one style. However, i may be misinterpreting what you are trying to say, so correct me if I am wrong.
also, what are your thoughts in regard to this article about kenpo?: http://www.americankenpo.com/dedication.html

[KenJeet]

Jobber - D,

Yes, I definitely recommend Ed Parker's American Kenpo as a good system. I feel it is one of the most complete systems out there in terms of everything that it exposes a student to. However, I have read that article in the past and do not agree. I know Ed Parker's son personally and he will be the best person to clarify things for you. American Kenpo is very effective, is better than the Chinese Kenpo that he originally taught and has a lot of very talented practicioners. Remember that it was not until Ed Parker made some very important discoveries that he renamed and for the most part, changed the system entirely. You should look into another article called "Who is the rightful heir to Ed Parker's American Kenpo." You could find it under www.blackbeltmag.com and then do a search under Huk Planas. Mr. Planas, in Ed Parker's own words was the guy who could intellectually debate anything Mr. Parker said. The infinite insights series by Ed Parker should clear everything up for you in the man's own words. Keep in mind that Mr. Parker was American Kenpo just like Bruce Lee was Jeet Kune Do. Nobody will ever be any of these two individuals. However, their systems can be taught and can benefit an individual incredibly. Hope this helps!!!!

[mild7]

attn: Faixa and Jobber - D

hey Faixa, have'nt seen you around for a long time man! How you doin'?

Hope you're the same Faixa-Rosa from the UW though. If you're not, all apologies.

Ok Jobber,
let me give you probly the BEST advice anyone is ever going to give you. First of all, WHY do you want to learn martial arts?
If you say, 'self-defense'. let me tell you straight, FORGET ABOUT IT. I'm not trying to criticise you or talk down to you btw, so I hope you don't see it like that.

A lot of ppl go into martial arts for 'self-defense', personally I think it's just an excuse to not train hard, and yet maintain a fantasy that they are deadlier than everyone else. Anyway, only you yourself will know. But something tells me that if you only want to know how to do the easy things, and you don't want to compete, don't want to grapple, you have to face the facts that maybe you just are'nt cut out for hard training. Hard training that will give you an edge over most single attackers, but is just not enough to equip you against ten gangbangers with knives and baseball bats.

If self-defense against multiple muggers and an aura of invincibility is what you want, quite frankly, go out and get a glock, keep it loaded and carry it with you when you go out. Corny but it's true.

[jobber-d]

basically, i am going for self defence. This is to prevent me from getting beat up in a school where if you look at someone they take it as a threat and are ready to pummel you.
I never said i wasn't prepared to train hard. What i said was that I wasn't prepared to devote almost all of my free time into it and 2 other styles on top of that. I only have time for one style, so im making sure I pick a good one.
I don't want to compete, because frankly it doesn't interest me. I never liked competitions in general for personal reasons, and im not looking to make this into a career. martial arts WAS created for self defence first in mind, not competitions.
I never said i did not want to do grappling. I said i did not want to do a style that focuses mainly on grappling. Im not ignorant, and i know that all techniques are useful in certain situations.
I dont know where you get the idea that i want to be ready against 10 guys with bats. I believe you've underestimated my research skills. I know the limitations of martial arts and how far it can take me. Please do not pre-judge my actions in the future, thank you

[Angel_of_Pain]

Hey Jobber I was training in both Muay Thai and grappling for like 3 years then i stoped for one year and re-strated only grappling cause for me its a sport but dont take grappling to lightly I got shit whit a guy slam the guard and neck crank him to tears and then nobody wanted shit from me, yes you can do kempo wich is better then a lot of martial art but never forget grap "pain" ling.

[mild7]

reply to Jobber-D

>>>basically, i am going for self defence. This is to prevent me >from getting beat up in a school where if you look at someone >they take it as a threat and are ready to pummel you.

If you're in this kind of situation, you have to look at the bigger picture. What kind of school, what kind of guys? Some schools you beat up a punk, the next day his uncle and his mates go out to look for you. That's the kind of school I went to btw.

Be smart. School is primarily a place to learn. Get a few good friends, and don't worry too much about being over involved in school life, like being happening etc. Cause once you come out into the real world you realise what a small and sheltered environment it all is. So it really does'nt matter if you're the king-fighter or not.

If the fights in your school are a 'fair' affair, with honour involved and all, you just can't go wrong with a style like BJJ/Sambo/Judo. This is perhaps the best choice for one on one dueling. My opinion of course.

>>>I never said i wasn't prepared to train hard. What i said was >that I wasn't prepared to devote almost all of my free time into >it and 2 other styles on top of that. I only have time for one >style, so im making sure I pick a good one.

To survive, I guess it would be a good choice to look into a reputable and truly modern combative system. Actually I think Krav Maga is quite good in this sense although not many agree with me. But before that try Shingitai Jujitsu, or maybe some other Close-Quarter-Combat system. But the greatest irony of all this is that these combative styles themselves encourage fullcontact sport training(boxing, Judo etc) to maintain skills.

>>>I don't want to compete, because frankly it doesn't interest >me

If you can't do well in competition you just have'nt reached your highest level of ability yet. Without competition you will never know what it's like to go through the blood, sweat and tears. You can never say that you are a fighter. That's the greatest irony of so-called 'sport-fighting', it may be sport but it's one of the only ways for the modern man to to develop as a fighter, physically and mentally. The other way is to pull a Tank Abbott and beat up ppl in bars on a regular basis.

>>>martial arts WAS created for self defence first in mind, not >competitions

They go hand in hand. This is the biggest bullshit in the martial arts world, that competition is useless. Go tell that to the wrestlers of old. Many old civilisations trained in wrestling for war. And they sure as hell considered competition a vital part of training. How else can you truly know where you stand.
Ironically, most of the martial artists that tell you their style is for selfdefence and not competition, these are the ones whose styles were never truly for combat in the first place. Take a look at the history of Shaolin gung-fu.

>>>I believe you've underestimated my research skills

There are 1001 ppl out there just like you, who've done their research and think they know what their doing. I just hope that at the end of the day, you're not kidding yourself as to where you really stand, and I hope you don't end up as one of those guys who say, "I don't compete because I'm just too deadly for it".
Anyway, all the best. And remember, there is no easy way for anything.

On a parting note, consider this. I think that as a beginner, you should look into a solid grappling style(BJJ/Sambo/Wrestling/Judo), and a good striking style(boxing, muay Thai etc).
Since you don't have much time, try doing maybe one session(or two if time permits) for each style. So that should give you 2-4 training session per week.
At the end of the day, you will be a lot more solid than someone doing a 'complete' style twice a week. Trust me on this one, been there done that.

Once you get better, say after a few yrs, go into combatives.

My advice my friend. There IS no easy way to proficiency!

[jobber-d]

If you're in this kind of situation, you have to look at the bigger picture. What kind of school, what kind of guys? Some schools you beat up a punk, the next day his uncle and his mates go out to look for you. That's the kind of school I went to btw.

for me it all really depends on the type of people you know. There are the type of people you described in my school, but I know them from when i was young and they won't cause any problems for me. I know that in the environment im in martial arts will be beneficial for me

Be smart. School is primarily a place to learn. Get a few good friends, and don't worry too much about being over involved in school life, like being happening etc. Cause once you come out into the real world you realise what a small and sheltered environment it all is. So it really does'nt matter if you're the king-fighter or not.

again, don't assume too much of me. School is a place to learn for me, and i don't have too much of a social life. I never stated i wanted to be "king fighter", and im not doing this to impress my friends.

If you can't do well in competition you just have'nt reached your highest level of ability yet. Without competition you will never know what it's like to go through the blood, sweat and tears. You can never say that you are a fighter. That's the greatest irony of so-called 'sport-fighting', it may be sport but it's one of the only ways for the modern man to to develop as a fighter, physically and mentally. The other way is to pull a Tank Abbott and beat up ppl in bars on a regular basis.

i doubt that to be efficient in martial arts you have to enter competitions on a regular basis. Plus, what about styles that don't even have competitions (krav maga)?

They go hand in hand. This is the biggest bullshit in the martial arts world, that competition is useless. Go tell that to the wrestlers of old. Many old civilisations trained in wrestling for war. And they sure as hell considered competition a vital part of training. How else can you truly know where you stand.
Ironically, most of the martial artists that tell you their style is for selfdefence and not competition, these are the ones whose styles were never truly for combat in the first place. Take a look at the history of Shaolin gung-fu.

I never said competitions are useless. I just frankly don't agree with the philosophies of competitions. They are a great way to hone skills and learn new things, but it is not essential to become efficient in martial arts.

There are 1001 ppl out there just like you, who've done their research and think they know what their doing. I just hope that at the end of the day, you're not kidding yourself as to where you really stand, and I hope you don't end up as one of those guys who say, "I don't compete because I'm just too deadly for it".
Anyway, all the best. And remember, there is no easy way for anything.

I said what i said because you were under the impression that i wanted a "master martial arts that would make me invincible and able to take on 5 guys at a time with no sweat in three months". You still seem to be under a similar impression, assuming i want to be "king fighter", or "too deadly to compete in competitions". I find those views laughable myself, and i know there are mountains of myths in the profession of martial arts, just like any other profession (ie. computers). I applaud what you are trying to do, but I just think you are attempting to do it to the wrong person.

On the plus side, you have enlightened me on a few topics. I may consider going into a competition or two once i begin taking up martial arts (although i will not make a habit of it ), and taking two seperate courses, although costly, may prove worthwhile.

[sidder]

Angel and Mild 7 are telling it true. I'm sure that kenpo is better than nothing (if you don't have much for skills to begin with), but something like muay thai or kyuk shin is SO street. People who do noncompetitive styles like kenpo will make excuses and say things like "kenpo isn't for trading back and forth. It's for ending the fight quick." But guys who train in kickboxing acquire such finely tuned reflexes and such magnificent power with fantastic 1-2-3-4 combinations that people who don't compete rarely even know what hit them. I cross train in jiujitsu, but, honestly, if you're only going to do one style, go look at a muay thai gym for yourself and compare it to whatever kenpo club you can find and think to yourself, "Where am I going to learn what I want to know?". Ed Parker himself wouldn't last 30 seconds with a decent muay thai fighter. Kickboxing is all about hardening the body, developing and maintaining super-quick reflexes, and cultivating explosive power. Whatever these guys hit, they break. Go see for yourself.

[mild7]

hey sidder

what you say about Edparker not lasting 30 secs with some of today's modern fighters is spot on.

A lot of ppl don't realise that sportfighters are trained so hard, they are in a whole different league altogether. It is such a shame that ppl today don't see a link with sportfighting and the street.

Real fighting is almost 100% mental toughness and determination; this is where sportfighters are way ahead of the self-defense crowd. Before you can fight in the street, you better make sure as hell you don't freeze up and cower in competition.

What I just don't understand is how some ppl I know talk about training for the street; but start to quiver at the thought of getting hurt in comp.
But this is still not as bad as the crowd who think they have it under control; only to shit themselves when the pressure is suddenly on.

Like our earbiting friend Mike Tyson said, everyone has a plan until they get hit.

[sidder]

Damn straight! Ouch!!!!!!! The truth hurts.

[taba]

can you not wrestle in school?

box/kickbox outside of school.