Just Saw The News!

[Qkfx]

SZ

SZ-
I'm afraid the flyingchoker here is a result of modern America, education and pop culture, completely emotionally driven. No idea of the history of this country or the rest of the world. Naive about how peace is truly secured. Praising the socialist elites solutions, which do sound great on paper, while degrading America and the traditional Christian values that have afforded people of all races and religons unprecedented freedoms. Calling himself a proud American in one breath and saying we brought it on ourselves in the next, yet seeing no contradicition in the two. Wouldn't want to be perceived as intolerant now would we?

[Szczepankiewicz]

You are correct sir.

My greatest fear is to be perceived by anyone to be intoloerant. I hope no one thinks that of me....

I just hope that all the talking heads out there who are "analyzing" and "theorizing" and asking why and who can we blame will eventually realize that now matter how good you can be or how great your intentions are, human nature will always, always reveal it's dark side in the worst possible ways.

You can only negotiate when all parties bargain in good faith.

I don't think we've seen that in the last 50 some years in the Middle East, and I don't think we will see it any time soon...

SZ

[keithws]

People find reasons to hate and that's a simple fact of human nature! Are you going to disagree?

Now, we can go and change our foreign policies to suit these fanatics, but that's going to alienate other countries. So, let's say they get pissed off. Then, we try to satisfy those guys and the country we just accomadated gets pissed off and the cycle goes on and on and on.

Even with diplomacy, you can't satisfy everybody. You have to pick sides! You can't ride the fence forever, because you're gonna fall.

Look at it this way. Isreal's your best buddy, and Palenstine is your buddies enemy. Who are you going to help out when they have a dispute. Me, I'm helping my friend.

And let's get real, what message would that send out to the world if we resorted to diplomacy instead of force to deal with an attack. It'd be open season on the U.S. for all those countries that are unhappy and disgruntled with our foreign policy.

And flying: no diarrhea of the keyboards if you respond. I go to sleep with the Captain kirk approach.

[flyinclockchoke]

article by journalist Robert Fisk

keithws,

must apologize for the pottymouth, lots of emotions as you can understand. and what is the captain kirk approach if you don't mind me asking...

found the following article on the adcc forum by journalist Robert Fisk, just thought if might open everyone's eyes and hearts to a different perspective.


By Robert Fisk

So it has come to this. The entire modern history of the Middle East - the collapse of the Ottoman empire, the Balfour declaration, Lawrence of Arabia's lies, the Arab revolt, the foundation of the state of Israel, four Arab-Israeli wars and the 34 years of Israel's brutal occupation of Arab land - all erased within hours as those who claim to represent a crushed, humiliated population struck back with the wickedness and awesome cruelty of a doomed people. Is it fair - is it moral - to write this so soon, without proof, without a shred of evidence, when the last act of barbarism in Oklahoma turned out to be the work of home-grown Americans? I fear it is. America is at war and, unless I am grotesquely mistaken, many thousands more are now scheduled to die in the Middle East, perhaps in America too. Some of us warned of "the explosion to come''. But we never dreamed this nightmare.


And yes, Osama bin Laden comes to mind, his money, his theology, his frightening dedication to destroy American power. I have sat in front of bin Laden as he described how his men helped to destroy the Russian army in Afghanistan and thus the Soviet Union. Their boundless confidence allowed them to declare war on America. But this is not the war of democracy vs terror that the world will be asked to believe in the coming hours and days. It is also about American missiles smashing into Palestinian homes and US helicopters firing missiles into a Lebanese ambulance in 1996 and American shells crashing into a village called Qana a few days later and about a Lebanese militia - paid and uniformed by America's Israeli ally - hacking and raping and murdering their way through refugee camps.


No, there is no doubting the utter, indescribable evil of what has happened in the United States. That Palestinians could celebrate the massacre of 20,000, perhaps 35,000 innocent people is not only a symbol of their despair but of their political immaturity, of their failure to grasp what they had always been accusing their Israeli enemies of doing: acting disproportionately. But we were warned. All the years of rhetoric, all the promises to strike at the heart of America, to cut off the head of "the American snake'' we took for empty threats. How could a backward, conservative, undemocratic and corrupt group of regimes and small, violent organizations fulfil such preposterous promises? Now we know.


And in the hours that followed yesterday's annihilation, I began to remember those other extraordinary, unbelievable assaults upon the US and its allies, miniature now by comparison with yesterdays' casualties. Did not the suicide bombers who killed 241 American servicemen and almost 100 french paratroops in Beirut on 23 October 1983, time their attacks with unthinkable precision?


It was just 7 seconds between the Marine bombing and the destruction of the French three miles away. Then there were the attacks on US bases in Saudi Arabia, and last year's attempt - almost successful it now turns out - to sink the USS Cole in Aiden. And then how easy was our failure to recognize the new weapon of the Middle East which neither Americans or any other Westerners could equal: the despair-driven, desperate suicide bomber.


All America's power, wealth - and arrogance, the Arabs will be saying - could not defend the greatest power the world has ever known from this destruction.


For journalists, even those who have literally walked through the blood of the Middle East, words dry up here. Awesome, terrible, unspeakable, unforgivable; in the coming days, these words will become water in the desert. And there will be, naturally and inevitably, and quite immorally, an attempt to obscure the historical wrongs and the blood and the injustices that lie behind yesterday's firestorms. We will be told about "mindless terrorism'', the "mindless" bit being essential if we are not to realise how hated America has become in the land of the birth of three great religions.


Ask an Arab how he responds to 20 or 30 thousand innocent deaths and he or she will respond as good and decent people should, that it is an unspeakable crime. But they will ask why we did not use such words about the sanctions that have destroyed the lives of perhaps half a million children in Iraq, why we did not rage about the 17,500 civilians killed in Israel's 1982 invasion of Lebanon, why we allowed one nation in the Middle East to ignore UN Security Council resolutions but bombed and sanctioned all others who did. And those basic reasons why the Middle East caught fire last September - the Israeli occupation of Arab land, the dispossession of Palestinians, the bombardments and state sponsored executions, the Israeli tortures ... all these must be obscured lest they provide the smallest fractional reason for yesterday's mass savagery.


No, Israel was not to blame - that we can be sure that Saddam Hussein and the other grotesque dictators will claim so - but the malign influence of history and our share in its burden must surely stand in the dark with the suicide bombers. Our broken promises, perhaps even our destruction of the Ottoman Empire, led inevitably to this tragedy. America has bankrolled Israel's wars for so many years that it believed this would be cost-free. No longer so. It would be an act of extraordinary courage and wisdom if the United States was to pause for a moment and reflect upon its role in the world, the indifference of its government to the suffering of Arabs, the indolence of its current president.


But of course, the United States will want to strike back against "world terror'', who can blame them? Indeed, who could ever point the finger at Americans now for using that pejorative and sometimes racist word "terrorism''? There will be those swift to condemn any suggestion that we should look for real historical reasons for an act of violence on this world-war scale. But unless we do so, then we are facing a conflict the like of which we have not seen since Hitler's death and the surrender of Japan. Korea, Vietnam, is beginning to fade away in comparison.


Eight years ago, I helped to make a television series that tried to explain why so many Muslims had come to hate the West. Last night, I remembered some of those Muslims in that film, their families burnt by American-made bombs and weapons. They talked about how no one would help them but God. Theology vs technology, the suicide bomber against the nuclear power. Now we have learnt what this means.

[Goddess]

::: Freedom :::

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

- Martin Luther King

and.....

as Omar Bradley said -

America, may we always be an arsenal of hope.

[keithws]

Captain Kirk and Diarrhea of the keyboard is one and the same. Basically, using a 1000 word response.

Sorry my man, but the only way to counter brutallity is to put the fear of god into your enemey. Remember your school yard bully? Did diplomacy work with him? I always found the best remedy to be aggression. Make him know that he was going to get hurt if he phucked with you.

Besides, how do you think we, the U.S., became the most dominant nation on the planet. It was by force! Throughout our brief history, we have continuously made those who have attacked us pay dearly.

Diplomacy is effective in many situations but not this one. As I said, a very clear message needs to be sent out to those who are against the U.S. and diplomacy is not it!

[flyinclockchoke]

of course we don't use diplomacy here

things i agree with:

come on now, was I suggesting we use diplomacy here man? we gotta bomb the f'uck outta the guys that did it... and we will continue to bomb terrorists should they ever f'uck with us in the future. yes, of course. if someone takes a swing at you, of course you hit him back...


things i disagree with:

i must point out that we're talking about a man who has the balls to fly an airplane into a skyskraper... you cannot put the "fear of god" into him. he's not afraid of anything if he's not afraid of flying an airplane into a building... yes, of course we should retalitate against these people by going to war... but can you also see that it won't do anything to prevent this from happening again in the future... their aggression is answered with our "justified" aggression... how is this not a cycle of hate? our justified aggression will be met with their "justfied" aggression and so on...

I am all for getting these guys, don't get me wrong... but I am even more keen on preventing this from happening again... ever!!! we should not let the victims of this horrible tragedy DIE IN VAIN. We should all learn a valuable lesson so that we don't ever have this again...

[keithws]

Wrong again Flying:

Let me help you out. The pricks that flew into the buildings were merely weapons. Secondly, these terrorists have nothing to lose. Their lives aren't worth living!

I'm not only saying destroy those weapons (terrorist), but also destroy those pointing the weapons. Believe me, high ranking officials, governments, and financial backers would have second thoughts about using terrorists if they had to also pay the consenquences. After all, they have alot to lose (wealth, power, women, etc).

After this year, you're gonna see how unpopular terrorism becomes once we take out a few leaders and blow the shit out of a few governments that harbor and aid these phucks!

[flyinclockchoke]

keithws

things i agree with:

1. the pricks that flew into the buildings were merely weapons
2. the terrorists have nothing to lose, their lives aren't worth living.
3. destroy the terrorists and those who are supporting the terrorists

things to consider you DISLOYAL AMERICAN:

1. you can't kill all the fanatical islamic extremists. because there are so many of them and some of them live in the united states or abroad and we don't know of all of them, do we? they're like a silent and hidden enemy amongst our ranks. they've infiltrated this great nation and there's nothing we can do.

if innocent muslims die, it will fuel their fire of hatred even more. if they can't crash a plane, then they strap on a bomb and walk into a preschool instead... the reign of terror continues all over... the more pre-school students die, the more hatred we feel and want to kill...

DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW YOU IRRESPONSIBLE HUMAN BEING? HOW DO YOU SOLVE IT NOW A'SSHOLE? WHAT DO YOU TELL THE PARENTS OF THE PRE-SCHOOL CHILDREN THAT DIED? LET'S HEAR SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE... SOMETHING THAT INVOLVES MORE THAN JUST THE USE OF BOMBS. BECAUSE AS I SO PLAINLY ILLUSTRATED, IT DOESN'T SOLVE S'HIT. GIVE ME A SOLUTION THAT YOU CAN IMPLEMENT AFTER THE BOMBS YOU F'UCK!

[Szczepankiewicz]

Yes, once again FCC has demonstrated his superior debating techniques that have so impressed Hookah...

All caps and four letter words. Really sent the message home to me. I like the lists, those are a nice touch too.


Teach me well, oh great seeker of truth.


The terrorists saw themselves as servants of a higher cause. Dropping bombs will not do any good.

We need to hunt them down, bring them to America, or better yet to one of the Muslim nations themselves, put them on trial, a fair trial!, and if they are convicted, execute them as the criminals they are.

Let them pay at the hands of Allah's true servants. To die in service of the Jihad is truly a ticket to paradise....

To die as a convicted dog at the hands of true believers for defiling the name of Allah is surely a ticket to hell....

[flyinclockchoke]

S

I completely and totally agree with you! We are now brothers! I will not hold any grudges with you from now on... no more arguing between the two of us... who's land is who's is not important... what's important is that we all live in peace...

[Szczepankiewicz]

Dude, if you and I are brothers,

I am going to go shoot my momma....

[flyinclockchoke]

it was only figuratively speaking...

Hey S,

I'm not an unreasonable a'sshole as you would believe... when i think you're right... i will agree with you... if i think you're wrong, then i'll disagree with you... perhaps my opinion doesn't matter to you... but I felt your comments were well said, and shows a level of cool-headedness and intelligent though process that you didn't reveal to me before.

just because we don't see eye to eye on this subject, does not mean we cannot see eye to eye on other subjects... just because we don't see eye to eye, does that mean we kill each other?

we can agree to disagree... we have to learn. i think that in countries that have successfully implemented separation of church and state... we countries in much ways are higher evolved... we've learned to become tolerant regardless of color and religion... i think this is probably the most logical path to take for other nations as well... but who knows, that's just my own opinion...

as for shooting yo momma, your old momma probably does deserve to be put to sleep for having such an ugly kid like yourself...

again I was only humoring you... just being a d'ick that's all... no harm intended.

[Szczepankiewicz]

And therin lies the problem.

If you were to think about what you were posting before you posted it the savage flood that has been unleashed here in the last week would not have happened and you wouldn't be getting this type of messages.

Go back and reread your posts from last week. Had you said the things you said in the way that you said them to a real room full of angry, frightened and frustrated people you would be little more than a goo pile.

Had you thought it out a little more and structured your points into a less emotionally charged tirade, I think neither myself or QKFX would have unloaded on your sorry excuse for an "American" butt.

However you chose to spout off the DAY of the event slapping blame around like a bucket of white wash.

I wouldn't say that you are "wrong" in all that you said, at least not in the beginning, but to say that you were dead wrong in the WAY that you said it and the TIME that you said it.... just goes to evidence that you have not been thinking things through. You have been caught up in defending yourself from everyone else.

But my invitation still stands, I am willing to chip in for the plane ticket so that you can go join the team of diplomats that can go fix the problems that have been raging for over 3000 years in a few months.

I sincerely wish you the best of luck. I, as well as thousands of Isrealites and Palestinians am tired of going to bed wondering how many more will die tomorrow....

[Qkfx]

illeterate

Anyone who can read the constitution can clearly see the seperation of church and state simply says there should not be a gov't sponsored church. Nothing more. 90% of the founders were deeply religous and based their laws and policies accordingly. They stated repeatedly that America was dependent upon God. A few places that have excluded God from gov't and public life completely have been China, Russia and Cuba. Yes they are quite evolved.