Bruce Lee vs. UFC lightweight division

[Tony10]

Mild7, you had me and then you lost me.

Your first two parts are debatable, but for the most part understandable.

However, you claim that Bruce just "pointed out the obvious," so where's the genius in that?

Well, no other "geniuses" seemed to figure it out before him. As I said before, genius is often about revealing the obvious, the simple.

Your claim that nothing would be different had he not come along is preposterous. Perhaps somebody else would've come to the same enlightenment, but he was the one who did first. Now you're engaging in revisionist history, or denial.

Not to mention the fact that you don't seem particularly well-versed in just what theories Lee put forth with JKD, other than "the five ways of attack," et al.

For the record, I like Bruce Lee and admire him but hardly idolize the man. However, give credit where credit's due. Your refusal to do so tells me there's something else in play here...

[bobby_steeles]

there is something else in play here: mild = mildly retarded

and ryu, you dumbass! that movie was when bruce was using the name li instead of lee. there was also two black guys with afros involved.

[Ryu (JKD?)]

aaahhhhhh now it's coming together.
I see.

Bruce Li. He changed his name quite a bit didn't he?? Bruce Li, Bruce Lei, Bruce Le, Dragon Lee, ........damn.

Some people said Bruce never used another name, and only made 5 movies. Big Boss, Fist of Fury, Way of the Dragon, Enter the Dragon, and 15 minutes of Game of Death.
They go as far as to say the other "Bruce Li's" are no more than OTHER people who were immitating him.

Proposterous huh?
Stupid people.

Ryu

[Newbie]

Jobber:

"do you know the strength that bruce lee posessed? it was extremely powerful for what his size was."

Could you be a little more specific? Do you have specific stories from creditable sources that you could relate? Did he compete as a powerlifter, participate in the World's Strongest Man, etc?

"He had less body fat then almost anyone in the world."

So does my scrawny, little 115 pound cousin. He's cut as hell with almost no visible body fat. I've seen him get manhandled by my 200 pound brother that has no more than average muscle definition.

"There were also lots of stories about him streetfighting anyone who challenged him, and he would regularly whoop the opponent's ass."

There are a lot of stories about a lot of guys that regularly beat beat guys up in bars. Even if the stories about Bruce Lee's streetfights are true, who did he actually beat up in these encounters? Were they world-class fighters?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sidder:

"But I do know enough about the absurd claims that people make about Bruce and I think it's appropriate that a good many of those dogmatic deifiers are Christians."

The Asian martial arts, Kung Fu in particular, have throughout history been shrouded in far more mystical, super-human claims than their European and American counterparts, such as boxing and wrestling.

Should we use this to belittle those that practice religions from that part of the world and stereotype them as "dogmatic deifiers"? Sure a lot of the people that relate super-human tales about Bruce Lee happen to be Christian, except could that possibly be because a lot of people in general happen to be Christian?

[mild7]

.

Tony10:

as an actor, Bruce Lee, in my opinion, is unparalleled. Sure, his movies may be a little corny today but back then it was absolute genius. But you must remember things like these are arbritrary.

Regarding for his fighting theories/philosophies/abilities. Bruce was pretty good back then, but even then I would never say he was the best in terms of fighting. In a way this too is a matter of opinion, but you can sort of put two with two in matters like these. Say, compare Joe Lewis with Lee. Ask a simple question, like who would come out on top in a fight. I say Lewis. Why? Size, strength(Lewis was strong), experience, mental toughness all play in Lewis's favour. The best Lee could hope for would be to get a GOOD dirty shot(say, to the balls). But even then, this may not be enough to stop Lewis, a biu jee to the eyes is not enough to stop a crazed, tough and good fighter.

You talk about geniuses revealing the obvious. But you still don't understand that pointing out something is one thing, DOING it actively is another. You don't need to understand the philosophy of JKD to do it. The core philosophy of JKD is quite simply to use what works and to never limit yourself. This is the way a layman would see it, but essentially this is JKD and you know it. It is not just a simple matter of crosstraining, although Bruce did talk about punching the puncher and kicking the kicker, it is about finding the truth in combat for yourself. What works, what does'nt.
So all in all, would you not say that Helio Gracie does JKD? I do. Helio is a small man with not much striking ability. His truth in the striking range is that he would get destroyed. He modified what was taught to him to suit his needs. The result was that he ended up as a functional fighter. He does JKD. But does he give a shit about JKD? Does he give a shit about Bruce? Hope you see my point.

I give credit where credit is due, but I also give shit when I see bullshit being pasted in front of my eyes. If you don't see or understand the fact that Bruce is the most cock-talked and overrated martial artist AND theorist of all time, then that's up to you. But only the fools are being fooled. The dragon is nothing more than a hyped up VASTLY overrated fighter, an average theorist, a substance addict, a steroid user, and to top it all off, a bad husband who died in disgrace. But he does make for good debatable material in death though.


Bobby Steeles:
Pls clarify as to why I am 'mildly retarded'.

[bobby_steeles]

Originally posted by Ryu (JKD?)

Proposterous huh?
Stupid people.

yes, very. but i don't hold it against you.

Originally posted by mildly retarded

Bobby Steeles:
Pls clarify as to why I am 'mildly retarded'.

your posts say it all.
just look at you last one. you go on and on about how none of the amazing claims of bruce as a fighter can be proved, but then you go on to make your own amazing claims at the end, all of which are negative and based on speculation and heresay! ha ha ha!
that spells "retard" to me, pal!

[Ryu (JKD?)]

Bobby Steeles, are you a Bruce fan?

[bobby_steeles]

nah. springsteen sucks.

[sidder]

Well, I think the best we can do to settle this argument is have Brandon Lee fight Sho Kosugi
and his sister will fight Dark Angel

Then we will know once and for all the might and power of Tae Kwon Do, I mean Jeet Kune Do

[jobber-d]

Could you be a little more specific? Do you have specific stories from creditable sources that you could relate? Did he compete as a powerlifter, participate in the World's Strongest Man, etc?

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/bruceleedivinewind/html/feats.html

even if you disagree at what this web page says about his feats, i value the opinion of Chuck Norris and Joe Lewis more then you people.

So does my scrawny, little 115 pound cousin. He's cut as hell with almost no visible body fat. I've seen him get manhandled by my 200 pound brother that has no more than average muscle definition.

theres a large difference between having no fat on ones body and having no muscle on ones body.

There are a lot of stories about a lot of guys that regularly beat beat guys up in bars. Even if the stories about Bruce Lee's streetfights are true, who did he actually beat up in these encounters? Were they world-class fighters?

i never said what you quoted me on

[Ryu (JKD?)]

The Boss sucks?????!

Blasphemy!

Ryu

[sidder]

Maybe the Boss should fight Brenda Lee. Oh ya, and she should be naked

[Bruce_Fan]

Hey Mild7

Hey Mild7,

I highly disagree with everything you have written.
I can see that you have a dislike for Bruce.

As you can tell by my name, I admire the man. Obviously, I don't appreciate your posts, and probably neither do a lot of other Fans.
Nevertheless, you are entitled to your opinions.

I could write 3 pages here as to why I think Bruce's philosophy and fighting skills were great.
That would not help anything, as I believe your mind is already made up.


Where do you get this following from?
", an average theorist, a substance addict, a steroid user, and to top it all off, a bad husband who died in disgrace. But he does make for good debatable material in death though."

I am curious to know where you got that info from.

I think Bruce was great at what he did. It seemed as if he was one of those people who come along rarely.
They were a lot of nay-sayers at that time as well.
You are not the first, nor the last.

However, most of them shut their mouth after meeting him
It's too bad he is not around today.

Sometimes, you come in contact with greatness and you know it. This, I believe was the case with Bruce. It'd be the same as a basketball players rubbing elbows with Magic, Bird, or Jordan.
Or a football player mixing it up with Elway, or Montana.

YOU JUST KNOW that you have come across an amazing athlete.

I believe this is what drew people like Dan Inosanto and other Martial artists to Bruce. They knew in their hearts what they had come across.



Thanks
Bruce_Fan

Ps. There are a lot of great fighters out there. Not everyone comepetes in a NHB competition (or boxing, etc...)
I've met people whom I have thought to be great fighters just from their street experience.
On the same token, They have better goals in life to accomplish than to win a fight in a ring by beating the crap out of another human being.
In other words, they have more going for them in their lives.

[Newbie]

jobber-d

I checked out your link. My favorite feat was :

"Bruce once caved in a protective headgear made from heavy steel rods, rods that had previously withstood several blows from a sledgehammer."

LOL

Not one of the feats of strength listed are as verifiable as something along the lines of a powerlifting title, etc.
Kind of like the claims made about his fighting abilities.

[mild7]

average theorist: regarding his theory on fighting. think about the changes he kept making on his way of fighting, the abandoning of a power side and other things. If he had still been alive, who knows what else he'd abandon.
Regarding his philosophy, well, that's an entirely different matter. The philosophy behind JKD is very sound but it is purely my belief that any dedicated, intense and openminded individual would come to the same conclusion without neccesarily having put it into words.

substance addict: the man passed out from using hash man.

steroid user: any JKD researchers here who'd like to disprove the claim that Bruce did steroids?

bad husband who died in disgrace: although reports may say Bruce died in a 'friend's' house..... yeah right. Get real and tell me he was'nt screwing around in his time. It was the 70's and he was god in hong kong.

So yes, these all do seem to be based on PURE speculation don't they?



BruceFan:
would you by any chance say that I am a great fighter as well? I too have won my fair share of streetscraps. I guess that makes me qualify for it eh?
Or maybe I can introduce you to a few other individuals who have never competed but are great fighters too just from their theories, charisman and experience. Robert Bussey, Emin Boztepe and Sergeant Warner to name a few. These guys are great too, they don't believe in competing either as competition is nothing like real fighting. They too have certain other better things to do in life.