Ultimate Weapon Fighting Championship?

[NHB Spice]

I've been thinking about this and I think It is possible. The rules would be something like this:

-One 10 minute round. The matches will probably not last that long and we can assume that the KO percentage will be quite high. But, we said that before the first UFC as well..

-Original NHB rules plus this: No groin strikes, no kicks or weapon strikes to a downed opponents head when standing up, no throat strikes.

-The weapons must be non-sharp and without any metallic parts. They should also be limited to a certain size/weight/length, meaning that the filipino stick, the 1,3 m staff and the long Jodo staff (2 m) is allowed but baseball bats and other heavy but easily handled weapons are banned, do you get it?

-The fighters must wear specially designed goggles to protect the eyes from uncontrolled thrusts with the sticks.

-The judgement of when a fighter is TKO:ed should be like in the UFC, meaning INSTANTLY stopping the bout when a fighter does not defend himself 100% properly.

-Extended possibility of Submitting, tapping 2 times is enough and should ALWAYS be accompanied by a verbal submission if possible.

We can assume that an event like this would end with Filipino stickfighters victorious. Fighters of less combat-oriented arts would step up and lose. Then they would go home and think of what went wrong, and try to fix this. In the long run, trraditional arts like Jodo and Karate sword practice would evolve and the practicioners would discover the long since forgotten parts of their arts that once made them combat effective. It would be an instant marketing sucess for the filipino arts and it would rock the martial arts world like the first UFC did. Well, not as much but it would be interesting... I think this would be a good thing for martial arts. It would not be possible in the USA but in Japan, maybe cooperating with pride? Jodo and Kendo is huge in Japan you know. Do you think an event like this would be able to set up? And what do you think the effects would be? This is a serious post, no trolling here. I posted this on the underground once and they were fairly optimistic and started arguing about the rules... How about you?

[ILONGGO]

The Dog Brothers should make good ambassadors for something like this.

The bad thing about it is it will be deemed too barbaric. Think about how UFC first came out; all these holier-than-thou motherSHOTYOURMOUTHs started screaming it is the end of civilization as we know it. This kinda matches has to be gradually fed to the public, i.e., as a demo to one of the PRIDE or MMA's that's been popping out like mushrooms all over the USA. Eventually, John Q. Public is gonna start asking for more...

[YeLLa-TiGeR]

Interesting point, if they showcased other forms of reality combat into a ring or cage, other unknown martial arts would be thrown into the spotlight. I bet it would boost Kali, Arnis, kendo and other MA.

[Bad Karma]

If you'd watch the Dog Bro's video tapes,

you said...

"We can assume that an event like this would end with Filipino stickfighters victorious. Fighters of less combat-oriented arts would step up and lose. Then they would go home and think of what went wrong, and try to fix this. In the long run, traditional arts like Jodo and Karate sword practice would evolve and the practicioners would discover the long since forgotten parts of their arts that once made them combat effective."

If you've ever watched the Dog Bro's video series, you would know they have pitted the roided up chopsticks against several other weapons. Albeit, a few of those people could've used more skill and/or strategy, but the wooden sword, bokken, was the one that beat Top Dog and left him with a broken rib to remember it by. It was also the Jo (Shindo Muso Ryu) that defeated Musashi in documented history. I doubt if sword players have forgotten much of anything regarding what makes their art combat effective. Have you ever held a sword? Feels good in the hands, huh? LOL!

I would like to see such an event with a wider variety of skill levels being used, though. It would be interesting if a general game plan develops like the non-weapon UFC's.

Peace

[Phoenix]

A bit dangerous

Now I'm by no means sure about what the dog brothers competitions do, I presume sparring with padded weapons, or spears with foam/plastic heads or something.

There is a story of an anglo saxon english soldier, who was captured and put on trial in Spain. He made the comment to the spanish that their soldiers were poorly trained, and pushovers in battle. They took great offense and pitted him against one of their fencing champions, who he beat. Even more annoyed, the judges brought two guards up to fight him this time, he said sarcastically "will any more be joining them?". The judges asked how many he would like, he replied any number under six, but he required the use of the weapon of his own country (the quarter staff). He fought three guards with rapier and buckler, armed with his staff, killed one with the first blow, and maimed the other two shortly afterwards. They were so impressed that they sent him home to England unscathed, and began to rethink their invasion plan.

Bearing in mind that he was a "maister of defense", not a run of the mill soldier. I told this story to demonstrate that staffs and cudgels are killing weapons. Otherwise they wouldn't be used in combat, it is far too easy to break bones and maim people with over a 1 inch thick 9 foot staff, wielded by a trained professional. I don't think realistically with these kinds of weapons (rattan sticks are different, they are designed with sparring in mind) that a tournament could continue, without a huge injury rate, and I don't think, unless rattan sticks and shinai were the only weapons used, it would be practical, you would end up with far too many serious injuries. Musashi miyamoto was famous for using a bokken (wooden sword for practice) in actual duels against opponents with a live blade, and killing them with it.

I still think it would be interesting, and (assuming that they weren't killing eachother), I would definately like to watch it.

[ILONGGO]

>rattan sticks are different, they are design with sparring in mind<
Sorry to tell you this bro, but in the right hand , rattan sticks can kill. As an example, a full force punyo (hitting with the butt end end of the sticks) to the throat, or witik ( a snappy hit using the body's momentum) again on the neck area can do some major damage. As for the Dog Bros, they go all out with the minimum amount of protection pads. As saw one of their fights where a single strike on the kneecap area and it was over...

[NHB Spice]

"If you've ever watched the Dog Bro's video series, you would know they have pitted the roided up chopsticks against several other weapons. Albeit, a few of those people could've used more skill and/or strategy, but the wooden sword, bokken, was the one that beat Top Dog and left him with a broken rib to remember it by."

I don't know much about the Dog Brothers but I know what they do and how they manage to have "friendly" no rules bouts. Can you tell me a little more about their matches, what weapons have been tested by them, and which ones have been proven "effective"?

"I doubt if sword players have forgotten much of anything regarding what makes their art combat effective. Have you ever held a sword? Feels good in the hands, huh? LOL!"

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this, but I've seen jodo, iaido and sword practice from Aikido and Goju-Ryu Karate, and I'm telling you they would be tossed around by any descent unarmed grappler or boxer.

[NHB Spice]

As I said, throat strikes would be banned, weapon strikes to a downed opponents head as well. This would make sure things like that would not happen. Rules can be added: neck strikes kan be banned altogether, knee strikes can be limited, rules can always be added, look at the UFC. It has something like 10-15 banned moves and still is an exciting event. And it still looks barbaric from the layman's point of view. As for the injury rate, I don't think bigger bones than ribs and fingers are easily broken. The level of the participant's skill should ensure their own safety. The reason people get hurt and killed in the streets but not in MMA is the skill that trained MA professionals posess.

[mild7]

oh! you saw an AIKIDO sword practice? and a KARATE one?
Have you ever seen a real kenjutsu sword practice? Ever seen ppl in KalariPayat duel with swords and shields?
The fact of the matter is that styles like Aikido have watered down the whole sword thing. They use it more as a way of illustrating centre-line mechanics, and to show the similarity or swordplay with certain techniques(e.g shihonage). They don't train in the sword for combative purposes. If they claim to do so it is a joke.
Anyway... it was a pretty funny post.. I just can't bring myself to imagine how a boxer would fare against a guy armed with a sword..

[Tony10]

Actually the Dog Bros. did try to get the UFC to televise their all-out stickfighting matches--which is pretty much what you're describing, NHB Spice.

Their fighting--which is included on their tapes you can get from Panther--incorporates sticks, punches, grappling, throws... you name it. The rule is that you go all-out, but don't intentionally put somebody in the hospital.

However, UFC declined, saying (after viewing some of their fights) that the political climate was too sensitive and this sort of fighting would probably draw even more heat from the whole (ignorant) anti-NHB forces.

Here's the letter on their website:

http://www.dogbrothers.com/ufc.htm

So if they wouldn't do it, I don't know if somebody else would be willing to take the risk...

[Edited by Tony10 on 10-16-2000 at 10:23 AM]

[bobby_steeles]

maybe they can have like a "joust" type of event where two guys each stand on their own platform facing eachother and they are armed with staffs but they're only padded on the ends and they have to--oh, wait a second. that was american gladiators...

[Stuart S. Igarta]

Take if from someone who has gone full contact with rattan sticks and very little protective equipment (fencing mask and football gloves). The human body can take a lot of abuse. I've been hit on the hand, arm, knee, foot, upper body, head and shin, the hits hurt but they generally won't stop you. If you use padded sticks or to much protective equipment you remove the fear factor and people get foolish in their fighting.

[NHB Spice]

A boxer would do quite well against a man with a WOODEN sword, if the swordsman couldn't handle it. OF course, Aikido and Karate is (most styles), not about reality combat, but I've practiced Aikido and believe me, Aikidokas are among the most stubborn, narrow-minded MAs there is. Some of them really believe their art is created for reality combat, instead of seeing the other great qualities it posess. If they went into a ring and got well beaten, maybe they will rediscover the lost combat effectiveness that the art once had, or aim for the other good things that didn't quite get into their combat-focused minds. Tell me, how can that be a bad thing?

[Balisong]

Yup. The UFC turned down the dog bros for political reasons.

You're idea is great NHBSpice even though it's practically being done the same way by the dog bros.

Your idea seems like a promising attempt to promote FMA, and it's effectiveness. I commend you for that but I think the general awareness of Kali is fine the way it is. I'll probably vomit when Jorge Lukas commercializes the art when he gets Yoda does some flashy siniwali with light sticks.

I'll join your event though, but I'll only fight in the hippo match.

[NHB Spice]

"You're idea is great NHBSpice even though it's practically being done the same way by the dog bros. "

Not really, the Dog Bro's are a friendly, non-televised bunch of skilled amateurs. This event would be a regular competition with "anything goes" attitude. With rules though. Vale Tudo was going on in brazil for centuries, but it didn't get into the spotlight until it was televised, right?

"Your idea seems like a promising attempt to promote FMA, and it's effectiveness. I commend you for that but I think the general awareness of Kali is fine the way it is. "

I'm not pro-Kali, I think it would be interesting to see other styles step up against the filipinos and see what happens. And, everyone knows Kali, that's right but it would gain enormously from being put into the spotlight on television.

"I'll join your event though, but I'll only fight in the hippo match."

Huh??!!!