This place needs more judo discussion!

[Szczepankiewicz]

Good post Judo Guy. I studied Judo for a semester and really liked it. Unfortunately a back injury, no time and long distance put a premature end to my judo training. I hope to go back someday soon.

SZ

[soho]

I think Judo has a lot to offer as a part of the overall game, There are few good Judo guys that come to the place I train. Two are from the Romanian national Judo team. They toss me standing up. I tap them on the ground. I think we have a pretty good information exchange.

In regards to "BJJ is a sport about defense, and judo is a sport about offense" I don’t see that at all. The real differences as far as the sports are the rules. Specifically that the ref will stand you up really quick in a judo match, This allows you to do things like turtle and wait to be stood up. Where if you turtle like that in a BJJ match you will probably not be stood up and will eventually get broken down. It also makes it more likely that people will go for big throws, knowing that if they miss they’ll probably just be restarted. All this makes the game very different. So different in fact that I’ve seen Judo black belts lose to BJJ white belts in BJJ tournaments. Just because after the players hit the ground they stay down there. I remember a friend of mine getting thrown big time in a BJJ tournament, scrambling back to his guard sweeping the other guy, and submitting him from the top. My friend was a BJJ white belt the other guy had been doing judo for seven years.

These days we all want to be as good with our throws as we are on the ground. I tend to go more towards Western Wrestling stuff for my takedowns then Judo stuff (not that the concepts are all that different).


By the way. The guard should not be thought of as a defensive position. If you have someone in your guard you should be attacking. In fact being aggressive from your guard is what makes the guard work.

[judo guy]

Hi soho,

The guard is a defensive position. That's why you can't score points for having the guard. Just because you can attack from the guard doesn't mean playing the guard game is an attacking game. I can do throws in judo from a defensive position as well. Many good judoka are known as counter fighters. Yet, I will be penalized if I maintain that defensive position for more than a few seconds. You will not be penalized for holding the guard even if you hold it for the entire match.

[soho]

In terms of the mindset you have when in guard, you should consider it offensive. If you consider it defensive then you may tend to just lie there.

In terms of a tournament the guard is neutral, nether side gets points.

That being said the first thing I learned in BJJ is that you never chose the guard unless you are setting something up. Mostly guard happens because you have messed up a take down or you were taken down.

BJJ is the NHB of the grappling world forget the "penalties" forget the rules and the restarts. Just let people grapple however they want, and see who gets control, and who taps.

[Szczepankiewicz]

That would make for some very long and very boring Judo contests...don't you think?

[soho]

What would make for boring contests? Letting people do what they want?

[Szczepankiewicz]

BJJ folks specialize on the ground. Judo players are probably half and half. Most will stand up and be reset instead of doing ANYTHING on the ground.

Having Judo guys go newaza would be about as exciting as watching two bjjr's having a jump rope contest.

Judo is just fine the way it is. If you don't like the rules, then of course you can go fight mma or some other grappling competition.


I realize that this doesn't really confer to the rest of the thread, but keep in mind it's early and I haven't had my coffee yet!

SZ

[soho]

I'm not suggesting that Judo change it's rules.

By the way jump roping rocks. I won state jump roping champion two years running. Lost in the nationals though.

[Szczepankiewicz]

But do you understand where I am coming from? I agree with you that the BJJ competitions are better (strictly opinion) but Judo is Judo and will always be.

Nationals eh? Too bad, I hear there is lot's of money if you can go pro.

SZ

[soho]

So your using the dredded "judo is judo" position. Well I can't argue with that. Your right judo is judo.

BJJ should be the next olimpic sport. No-Gi BJJ even better.

[Szczepankiewicz]

Yes many a foe has fallen to my "Judo is Judo" technique. BJJ is better all around I think as I prefer having people tapping out than just being thrown. Although the Judo throws are good.

We should bring back nekked Pancrase in the Olympics, but only for women.

[Zhoozhitsu]

The biggest difference I see in the philosophy of BJJ and Judo in contest is that BJJ is a sport about defense, and judo is a sport about offense.

Por Que? That's the biggest difference you see between BJJ and Judo in contest? How about Judo is basically about throws, just as TKD is about kicks? I'd say the biggest difference between Judo and BJJ is that most Judokas' ground techniques are next to useless as compared to most BJJists' ground techniques. Both styles have practical applications in a "street" contest, but one is far superior and more applicable.

Also, BJJ provides for more versatility in contests. Most Judo matches comprise of two grown men writing love letters to each other.

Soho, you made some excellent points. JG, I can understand your love for the sport, and there's nothing wrong w/ that. But to say that the biggest difference between Judo and BJJ in a contest is that the former is offensive is an insult. Take it back!

[Szczepankiewicz]

Most Judo matches comprise of two grown men writing love letters to each other.

Yeah, that about sums it up! Too funny.

SZ

[soho]

that's it Zhoozhitsu curse the b*tch out

[judo guy]

Hi Zhoo,

How have you been? Hope life is well. I stand by the statement. you italicized.

From what I've observed about BJJ contests, the majority of the matches are fought from the guard position. If you don't understand the meaning of the word "guard" I suggest you look it up in www.dictionary.com (they even have a definition under sport) and thesaurus.com.

It is conceded that a person can "attack" from the guard. Just like a person can attack from a defensive posture in judo. But so what? It's not the primary purpose of the position. The primary objective of the guard is to prevent your opponent from entering an advantageous position to attack from.

Judo penalizes defensive behavior. BJJ does not. I can't make it any simpler than that.

Your versatility statement can't be taken seriously. There are 3 ways to end a BJJ match and all of them have to do with submission. 2 of those ways are part of judo(attack the neck and elbow) Judo matches can also end by pins, throws, combinations of pins, throws and penalties.

Regarding the love letters comment, Judo competition is so much harder on the body than BJJ competition. The training is harder also. Have you forgotten the posts that Kid Peligro made on this forum when he explained the difference between training judo and bjj in Brazil? Ask the Camarillo's how tough judo training is. Rhadi Ferguson too. Heck, ask judoka turned World Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Champion Leo Leite which is the physically tougher sport. Mr. Leite even commented that his 3rd place medal in a regional judo tournament was more important to him than his World Medal in BJJ!

Besides, if judo competition looks like men writing love letters, then what does it look like when one man is on his back with his legs wrapped around the other guy? Looks more like lovemaking than love letters

I think BJJ is a great sport. One of my sons was a blue belt and I have another son who started his BJJ training a couple weeks ago. I readily admit the arts utility in becoming groundfighting proficient.

But I think judo competition is more interesting.