This place needs more judo discussion!

[Zhoozhitsu]

Originally posted by judo guy
From what I've observed about BJJ contests, the majority of the matches are fought from the guard position. If you don't understand the meaning of the word "guard" I suggest you look it up in (they even have a definition under sport) and thesaurus.com.

Ha? Your statement doesn't make much sense. By the same logic, in the majority of Judo matches, someone gets nailed w/ a throw or pin. Does that mean Judo is a passive style? You forget that for every person who is fighting from the guard, someone is fighting from the top, aka "The agressor". Therefore, in both styles, one person is the agressor, and the other the defender.

Judo penalizes defensive behavior. BJJ does not. I can't make it any simpler than that.

BJJ penalizes defensive behavior also. If one person is stalling, eventually they will start having points taken away from them. Also, if no points are scored, the person fighting more aggressively gets the advantage and win.

Your versatility statement can't be taken seriously. There are 3 ways to end a BJJ match and all of them have to do with submission. 2 of those ways are part of judo(attack the neck and elbow) Judo matches can also end by pins, throws, combinations of pins, throws and penalties.

Heheh. But let's be honest. What percentage of wins in Judo are from submissions? By contrast, most finishes in BJJ are from a variety of submissions. So you see that in the real world, BJJ contests provide for more versatility than Judo contests. In Judo, the participants engage in standup battles 'til someone gets thrown on their arse or time runs out. That is not exactly what I'd call versatility.

Regarding the love letters comment, Judo competition is so much harder on the body than BJJ competition.

No argument there. I can't comment on how tough Judo competition is since I have no experience in that arena.

Besides, if judo competition looks like men writing love letters, then what does it look like when one man is on his back with his legs wrapped around the other guy? Looks more like lovemaking than love letters

At least BJJists don't just talk about it. They do it.

But I think judo competition is more interesting.

It may be interesting to you because of your personal experience, but BJJ competition is inherently more exciting to watch because of the reasons I stated above, i.e. versatility.

Allow me to summarize my points:

1. BJJ is a more versatile sport, and therefore more exciting to watch and participate in (a plethora of finishes in BJJ as compared to Judo)

2. BJJ is more practical in a street fight

3. BJJ is a more aggressive style than Judo (recall that most Judoka's give up their backs as soon as they hit the deck)

[judo guy]

Zhoo,

One last time. In judo, a person would not be allowed to hold a defensive position for more than a few seconds. In BJJ you can hold the guard for the whole fight. If BJJ was as much a game of attack as judo, if nothing happened in the guard, they would stand them up, or they would penalize the guy holding guard after 15-20 seconds if he hadn't reversed the position. No matter how you look at it, you have to be a more aggressive competitor in judo.

In judo if you are not attacking, or looking to attack, you are losing the match.

Variety of submissions? C'mon. I bet no more than 4 or 5 submissions account for 90% of the submission wins. Last Olympics I think there were over 75 different winning techniques including pins, armlocks, throws, chokes. The statistics for the 1996 Olympics suggest approximately 10 percent end by submission and another 10 percent end by pin. This is about 20 percent of matches end on the ground. There are no statistics for 2000, but I imagine it went up because more time was allowed to develop groundwork. About 60 percent ended by throws and 20 percent by "other" which can mean a combination of techniques, plus penalties etc.

I find discussions about "real world" kind of pointless. There will be some situations where BJJ would be better, some where boxing is better, some where judo is better etc. We could go on ad nauseum with examples of situations where one art would do better than the other. Quite honestly, I think in the average "fight", any martial art will help a person win in 85-90% of the situations. The truth is most people don't know how to fight.

Besides, the conversation was about sport.

I will say that BJJ is a great base for submission fighting, while I think judo is a better base for sports like wrestling, greco and sambo.

Regarding your summary, 1) wrong 2) possibly and perhaps yes under most one on one conditions 3) wrong. And your point about giving up the back is stupid. Giving up your back is bad in BJJ competition. It is not bad in judo competition. The rules of the sport come into play here. Your observation only makes sense from a BJJ perspective.

So, in summary,

1) Judo is a more versatile and interesting sport (there are many more ways to achieve victory and more ways to lose)

2) With the exception of Laetitia Castra (judo player), BJJ has way hotter women than judo.

3) These conversations get dull quickly.

4) Vitor Belfort was the best NHB competitor BJJ ever produced.

5) When I was a young man, I looked pretty damn good in a gi

6) I'm gonna let you have the last word, because I know you just have to have the last word

Again, hope everything is well with you!

Take care.

[Zhoozhitsu]

Good morning JG,

You'd stated before that Judo penalizes defensive behavior. BJJ does not. I can't make it any simpler than that.

That statement is patently false. BJJ does penalize defensive behavior. Maybe not as aggressivley as Judo.

Also, you stated that In judo, a person would not be allowed to hold a defensive position for more than a few seconds.

By the same token, in Judo, a person may not be allowed to hold an offensive position for more than a few seconds, i.e. if he's attacking on the ground, but no submission or pin is resulting. So in effect, Judo penalizes offensive behavior at times. Just like you said, And your point about giving up the back is stupid. Giving up your back is bad in BJJ competition. It is not bad in judo competition. When you have an attacker on the back of a turtled opponent in Judo, they will stop the fight if nothing is happenning for a few seconds.

Let's face it JG. Judo's plethora of rules are designed w/ one thing in mind: To keep the fight standing so someone can get tossed like a rag doll.

The proof that Jiu Jitsu is a more aggressive style than Judo becomes evident when you have two highly skilled participants in Judo and Jiu Jitsu face off in a limited rules grappling contest, i.e. under ADCC rules. You will find that the Judoka will probably give up his back after failed attempts at throwing the Jiu Jitsuits 9 out of 10 times. Either that, or the Judoka gets mauled on the ground. I would hardly call that aggressive.

I will concede to you that a Judo match will probably foster more aggressive moves than a Jiu Jitsu match because of the zillion "anti-passive" rules Judo has. But in environments w/ as few rules as possible, Jiu Jitsu reigns supreme.

And I also disagree w/ you that a Judo match is more exciting than Jiu Jitsu. If you have an untrained spectator view a Judo and Jiu Jitsu match of equal caliber, he/she would probably pick Jiu Jitsu as more versatile and exciting to watch.

[Ryu (JKD?)]

Judo Guy and Zhoo arguing? Has the apocolypse come?

What's your view on Kosen Judo then?

Ryu

[Zhoozhitsu]

Kosen Judo is just an under-developed version of BJJ. Anybody who is anybody in the Judo world practices Kodokan Judo. Not to say there aren't skilled practitioners of Kosen Judo out there, but their skills pale in comparison to an elite BJJist. The difference between Kosen Judo and BJJ can best be analogous to going from the cave man to modern man.

Judo is a fun sport to participate in, but if you want your kid to take care of the neighborhood bully, don't send a boy to do a man's job. Have him take BJJ, then turn him loose on the neighborhood.

[crazyjoe380]

If you cant use it on the street it's crap...Judo is hard to use on the street cause most of the judo moves are for sport...

JUJITSU is street...


CASE CLOSED! FUC.K SPORT

[Szczepankiewicz]

Can you use a larger font? At my age the spectacles just aren't cuttin' the mustard anymore. That's hard to read when it's that small...

[crazyjoe380]

HAHAHAHAH

HE SAID CUTTING THE MUSTARD!!!

HAHAHAHAHA

[Ryu (JKD?)]

I've used judo numerous times on the "street"
Once against two guys (slam, quick newaza, and back up on my feet)
Once just with a takedown and newaza.

What's sportive about picking someone up and suplexing them on their head? That also is judo. It's called ura nage.
Judo has many more throws than the stereotypical hip stuff.

Box, clinch, slam, kick his head while he's down, and get lost.
Easy as that.

Ryu

[aseepish]

Stupid Spam.

But this forum does need more Judo discussion. I'm seriously considering going back to my old Judo club.

[Ulio]

Judo is fun I use to do some when I was kid, too bad you can't swing people with full force.

[DSA]

There will be a judo tournament in las vegas, March 27 at Garside middle school, 300 S. Torrey Pines. (all ages welcome). SILVER STATE JUDO CHAMPIONSHIPS.

[shane90]

nice man very useful discussion on the judo man that really awesome to read ......

[adilenekate]

Hi you....Im very much interested to have being discussed with you all on judo,just awaiting for the various thought and discussions here and right now I have been through the site on net where you all and I may find very useful information on the present track.so I wanna be tough and so u....Then why late,just feel the difference at karate for kids