Sakuraba & The Gracies

[edro]

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[crazyjoe380]

RICKSON.....

IN PORTUGUESE....R's pronouced as an H sound...


Royce...Hoyce...

[Rob B]

I used to have tremendous respect for Rickson, I have to admit though it was based alot on reputation. In recent times though, he has been an utter dissapointment to his family as well as his fans. Rickson the Champion of the Gracie family, the man with the greatest expression of Jiu-jitsu in the world, the man with 400 wins under his belt was made to cowar and hide by a Japanese Shoot fighter named Sak.

Rickson was in Roylers corner while Sak kicked him around and beat him up for 45 mins. Royler wasn't afraid, even being outwieghed by at least 30 lbs he was willing to face Sakuraba and take his beating like a man. At the end there when Sak had Royler in the Kimura, the very same hold that finished his father I could swear that Sak looked over to Rickson almost saying ok, now will you fight. And when it was over I was sure that he would. I put myself in his place and I thought that if it was my little brother who just got beat up fighting for my family while I watched, there would be no hesitation; I'd sign to fight him that night. But it never happend, I don't know what excuse Rickson made but he would not fight Sak not even after that.

Next it was Royces turn to take on Sak; the 3 time UFC champion was going stand up for his little brother and his families name. It had to be done and since Rickson wouldn't do it Royces mission was clear - defeat Sakuraba no matter what. For an hour and a half they battled, with Royce putting on a game effort early on. It wasn't enough, Sak outlasted Royce and he was forced to throw in the towel and say NO MORE. A sight I'd never thought I'd see, the Gracies were humbled again and I thought - OK, he doesn't have a choice now, Rickson just watched 2 of his little brothers get beat up. But once again not a word.

Renzo was the next, he wasn't in their immediate family but he was a cousin and blood none the less. He stepped into the silence that Rickson Gracie left and wanted to finish the man that his cousins could not. Renzo was their best chance, he was the same size as Sak, extremely agressive, a better striker than the other Gracies and just as good on the ground. The fight was quick and explosive, many thinking that Renzo had the upper hand for most of the first round. That was until Sak locked in the Kimura again, this time not hesitating like he did against Royler and really cranking it. Renzo's shoulder popped and the fight was over. Not again, another Gracie finished with the Kimura. What now, there is no one left except for Rickson.

Rickson chose to fight Funaki of the Pancrase claiming "Sak has no Aura". Funaki was a good fighter but by no means on Saks level. People always state that blood is thicker than water, well I guess in Ricksons mind money is thicker than both.

[Groin Grab]

That's exactly how I feel, I have all the respect for Royler, Royce and Renzo because they weren't afraid to risk blemishing thier perfect fight records. I though Rickson would finally step up and fight some one good but no instead he just talked trash and said that he has never been impressed by Sak that he's not the same calibure fighter as he is ect. ect.

Dude Rickson is not the same calibure fighter as any of the top competitors of today. Because he's never had to fight against this level of compition. That's the bottom line and end of the story.

To be a great champion you have to have great opponents.

It's just like Roy Jones Jr. saying he's the best pound for pound, that's all theory he can't prove that because he's never had to fight an Oscar De La Jolla or a Verne Forrest, or a Shane Mosely or a Felix Trinidad or Evander Holy Field, Mike Tyson, of his weight class he's only fought no bodies, his last fight against that 29-0 Austrialan was a joke that guy's game was pathetic. Just like Ricksons win against what was suppose to be Japans so called best shoot fighter.

[crazyjoe380]

Rickson fought so many...


let's give him credit for that.....


silva whipped sakarabas ****in ass....so this game of critizism will never stop reguardless of who did what and what did who...
he has many wins under his belt and leave it at that...

he's old...let the man retire...


SILVA #1

[Halloween Jack]

Originally posted by edro
[B]18 fights a year, if you're including all types of fights, is nothing! I could get into one fight everyday after school, and use the weekends to rest, no problem...and I'd have TWENTY or so in just a month!

Rickson, or at least a lot of those promoting him, claim a professional record of 401-0. I consider a professional match to be one that takes place within some kind of spectator event, where the general public or martial arts community can watch. One instructor going to another's school and challenging him to a roll on the mat isn't a professional match. Nor is a street fight.

I could probably beat every Pride champion in a street fight, if only I had a lead pipe and a shadow to hide in...

[QUOTE]
You say he's fought no one respectable...but wasn't he the Vale-Tudo champion of Brazil?...and the WVT champion each and every time he attempted it?

I think the Rickson-haters simply hate him in order to try and push him back into the ring.

Right or wrong, most vale tudo fans have a "put up or shut up" attitude in regards to competition. Claim to be the best, you gotta compete with the best. When they were younger, Chuck Norris and Bill Wallace used to be the greatest point-fighters around. They're definitely still good, and they deserve to be recognized as athletes of excellent quality for their accomplishments in their prime, but they don't claim to be the best there is now that they're old enough to be grandfathers.

Even if he proved himself...it wouldn't be enough...it never would, unless he lined up the top ten fighters in the world, and spanked them all. And then you'd still have the guys who come in years later saying "RICKSON DODGED ME....I CAN BEAT HIM, HE WON'T EVER FIGHT ME"

You're absolutely right. To expect Rickson to fight anyone, anywhere, any time under any conditions for any amount of money is ridiculous. It's a ridiculous expectation to have for any fighter. Even if Rickson hopped into Marty McFly's DeLorean and beat up Bruce Lee, Masahiro Oyama, Morihei Ueshiba and Spartacus, there would still be one more punk at the end of the line trash-talking him. However, if he were to fight just a few more times, against some of Pride or the UFC's better fighters, it would lend some serious credence to his claims.

...well my friends, that's because the man is pushing 45...and is still in the best damn shape of his life...and in better shape than a majority of fighters!

If Rickson is in better shape now than he was in his prime, why not fight?

Why don't you people start badmouthing Helio too!?...maybe he'll get back in the ring to prove himself, eh?

Helio doesn't have to prove anything...because he's retired. He still deserves a lot of respect for making Brazilian jujutsu what it is today and introducing it to the rest of the world, but no one seriously thinks that he would win a fight against, say, Vanderlei Silva. Nor does Helio claim to be capable of such.

Let Rickson retire, for God's sake.

Rickson can retire. But if he does, then Rickson-or his fans, or whoever keeps making incredible claims about his fighting ability-should stop yapping. If Rickson continues to claim that he can beat anyone, then everyone is going to answer his claim with the classic response of an MMA enthusiast: "Put up or shut up!"

[Rob B]

Joe,

Can you name me some of the fighters on Ricksons 400 list in Brazil? What were the quality of these fighters? How much NHB experience did they have? I can think of only 2, His most famous matches were against Zulu and Hugo Da Silva Duarte.

Zulu was a brawler who had some wrestling experience behind him. Sure he was strong but he would have gotten beaten to a pulp by todays fighter. Hugo Duarte did fight in modern MMA fights, if I recall correctly he got grounded and pounded by Kerr and then he got raped by Tank in the Octagon; I think it was something like 10 straight punches to the head and then it was stopped. Now these are Ricksons biggest names besides Funaki, hardly impressive.

As for the other 398 in Brazil, I don't know; I don't think anybody knows and until there is evidence that these fights took place against quality opponents I don't know how anybody can use them as an argument.

Also, why did you bring up Silva beating Sak? That has nothing to do with Rickson, in fact it shows that Sak has more of a warrior spirit, fighting the best of the MMA instead of just talking about it.

[crazyjoe380]

rob...

the gracies have been fighting for years ..even before we were born...


the fighter in brazil ..are pretty good...

why you think royce won the ufc's so easliy..cause they've been doing that no holds barred shit...before the u.s. ...so has japan..
we should respect that....US fighters are coming up but they are the frontiers of this shit..and let's respect them...

[Bau]

When did Rickson himself claim that he could beat everyone???

[Rob B]

Joe,

That is absolute BULL S H I T. I respect them for bringing NHB to North America and the major championships they have won, HOWEVER they are not untouchable. I am not going to turn my head and "SEE NO EVIL" when one of them does something wrong.

He's always talking about family and honor.

"I've come to Japan to prove that my families style is the best" JVT

But it's obvious that what he really cares about is money. I have a little brother and if that was me watching as he was beaten up, I'd have no hesitation. There is really no excuse for this.

[crazyjoe380]

Your taking it as if Sakaruba was on the street and renzo was walking and they fought and rickson did nothing about it...


this is entertainment....


this is for money.....


he chose to fight..he lost....that's it...



RICKSON....fought many japanese fighters...

i have some of his highlights...he's fought...
nobody is untouchable and anyone can be beatin...
anything can happen in a fight...ANYTHING...


so ....all i'm saying is let it be...

it's for money...every since ROYCE held up that big check from u.f.c. one in the air!!!

it's all for the love of money...

[Groin Grab]

Here's what I'm saying, Yea Rickson should retire, I agree he's too old to fight now, Yea I'll abmit he's a lot of fights and fought some tought guys. I have no problem admitting that.

But why can't all you Rickson lovers admit to the fact that Rickson Gracie has never fought a fighter that is of the same calibure as any of the top fighters of today. Tha'ts the bottom line, he's never fought anyone on the same level as what is out there now and there fore you can't say he is the best there was the best there is and the best there every will be because he is not!

To be the best you have to have fought the best and if there was no one that good at the time you were in your prime well than that's too bad for you because you still haven't proved that your the best.

[Rob B]

Oh so your saying that all their talk about family pride and warrior spirit was just fabricated B.S. They are just businessmen and do not care about their families honor? All of Rickson's talk in the Japanes Vale Tudo's about proving his families art - he really didn't mean and it was just a marketing tool?

You know what, I can buy that.

[Bau]

Well....he did talk about that family honour stuff in the JVT...and...HE BACKED IT UP....he won ..

Saying he never fought anyone good is like saying...Oh Wilt Chamberlain sucks because he never played against Shaq etc...
Wilt talked smack about current NBA guys all the time ...but no one ever denied that he was one of the greatest players ever...

Rickson is by no means unbeatable...but he IS a great fighter

[Rob B]

"Well....he did talk about that family honour stuff in the JVT...and...HE BACKED IT UP....he won .."

Oh ya, he backed it up against Bud Smith and David Levicki; That's something to be proud of. Where was his family honor when it was Sakuraba destroying his brothers and his cousin. Things like honor and pride are attitudes you carry with you all the time, not just when it's easy for you.

"Saying he never fought anyone good is like saying...Oh Wilt Chamberlain sucks because he never played against Shaq etc..."

That logic is completely flawed. Wilt Chamberlain had great rivals like Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul Jabbar and Bill Walton. He tooked them on all the time averaged 50 points a game and was the only man to record a quadruple double and a 100 points in a game. Helio in his prime had the balls to go to the Kodukan beat the 2nd rank Judoka in the world and then challenge Kimura himself. Sure he lost but it was obvious that he would rather die like a warrior than live like a coward.