Self Defense

[Szczepankiewicz]

Does anyone train primarily for self defense reasons?

What arts do you crosstrain to achieve your goals?

If so, what training methods do you use?

Any 'real life' application training? Security, LEO, Hospital, etc...

[Szczepankiewicz]

I see. Lots of hits, no responses.

Lots of people roll and wax romantic on the virtues of mighty Brazillian arts in 'real combat' yet no one has an opinion on this thread? Amazing.

I thought JKD and BJJ were all about 'taking it to the street'?

Or maybe no one likes me anymore and won't play in my sandbox????

SZ

[Roy Gaflaer]

Me and my boys currently don't cross train, but we do stimulate alot of real life situations. Throw punches, biting, scratching, kicking whatever. We roll in street clothes, boxers, speedo's whatever. Selfdefense wise I think we prepare pretty well for all situations on the street.

[soho]

I don't think of my training as for "self defense" I train because I enjoy it.

But think about your question.

"Does anyone train primarily for self defense reasons? "
"What arts do you crosstrain to achieve you goals? "

If I train primarily for self defense reasons. Then what are my goals? To be able to "kick ass" if I'm in a fight? What kind of a goal is that?

No... instead my goals are things like improve my top game, improve my triangle choke. Improve my boxing so I don't get my bells rung next time I spar. Improve my sprawl. Try to take down that wrestler who I workout with.

I believe that being able to defend myself is a BI-product of these goals however self defense is not a goal in itself

From your previous posts it sounds like you train pretty hard, however in my experience most of the people who talk about training for "Self defense" are people who spend all day training their knife flow drills and compound traps and Silat sweeps against no resistance, but never seem to get around to developing a ground game or their boxing hands. I wonder why that is?

If you have never looked at the straight blast gym web site there is a link on the main page all about "Street Vs. Sport" training.

Straightblastgym.com

[Szczepankiewicz]

If you truly read my posts, you'd find out how I train. I've listed all sorts of things that I train in.

My primary question is 'why' you train. The follow up question is 'how' you train to achieve the 'why'. Does that clear up what I'm after (NOTE: I am not being a smartass, just direct due to lack of typing time.)

Thanks for the reply,

SZ

[PentjackSilat]

Do me a favor, next time you roll with someone do it on gravel and broken glass.

Skizpankewick (I won't even try) I have Muay Thai as my base because it's simple and to the point. On top of that is the philosophy of JKD, a mix of Kali empty hands and Jun Fan trapping hands, Kino Mutai and Silat, with a little little little bit of Shoot Wrestling (much better than BJJ which doesn't even hit or lock up the legs) if I happen to find myself there (and then just enough to get away) I use the deceptive essence of Savate and their sidekick. I always have an all metal Parker Pen with me to use Kali with, in case someone BJJ junkie wants to take me down. (You'd be surprised what one of those pens could do to you! And it's a pen, no cop can say I'm carrying a concealed weapon!)
Hope this helps.

[soho]

I don't really consider it cross training anymore. Stand up Clinch and Ground are all part of the same game. Though the techniques may have originated with different arts. Thai Boxing, Wrestling, Boxing, Jitz, Savat, and whatever else, still they are all part of the same game...It's not cross training it's just training to fight.

In response to
"With a little bit of Shoot Wrestling (much better than BJJ which doesn't even hit or lock up the legs)"

The ground is the ground it does not matter if you call it Bjj, Shoot Wrestling, JKD groundfighting or whatever. If your training something on the ground that does not look anything like bjj they your probably not really rolling and therefore not improving at anything.

The problem with training for street fighting is that you end up spending your time thinking of things like how you can stab people with your pen rather than how you can improve your performance. While that mentality may be fun for some people. It would not be fun for me.

Szczepankiewicz what are your views?

[LEGION]

I initially started training because I had lots of time on my hands and nothing better to do. After awhile i kept it up becuase i enjoyed it and i also saw some of my friends get beat the **** down on a few occaisons by guys they could have easily taken with some training. Having no intentions of ever becoming a professional fighter i would say i now train for exercise, enjoyment, and to not become a statistic. To acheive these goals i train bjj, wrestling, boxing, muay thai, judo, and kali. I think that covers all the bases, unless guns come up.

[PentjackSilat]

Soho, the only reason I will be in a fight on the street is because I am being mugged. Stabbing people with my pen is not me idea of a Saturday Night. But get real man! How long does it take to perfect your armbar? Two months from when you first learned it? "Oh please mister mugger, come back in a month when I have perfected my arm bar?!" "Oh no, you can't carjack me now, I haven't fininshed perfecting my armbar to triangle setup?!" Here's a news flash: BJJ alone doesn't work on the street! I don't care if you put Hickson Gracie out there. (Who happens to be the best in the world!) But when two men bent on taking your money come at you, one with a tire iron and the other with a spiderco, you'd better know something more than an armbar! 90% percent of all crime takes place with a weapon! When was the last time you heard of someone who got carjacked with a smile?! Sidemount someone with a knife and you'll lose your intestines! I know there are some people out there who will brawl with anyone as soon as they call their mother a whore. *&^%^ those idiots. If I am fighting it is becasue I have no other choice. If I have no other choice, you best believe my pen is going so far down your throat you'll be pissing ink! Yes, If I am a master then I'll have a greater chance. That is why I study and get better. So that in the future I can better defend myself. But what if I am attacked tonight? If I had started martial arts when I was 2, I'd would be a master by now. But guess what? I didn't! And when will I be a master? I don't know! But I do know two things, I am not a master yet, and I have pen! So tell me, what will you do if tonight two people with bats break into your house? I can tell you what I'd do. I'd Get my Stick and Dagger and start swinging. Let me see you mount one while the other is right behind you...with a *@#$*&$ bat! And when I go to a bar on Friday night and some idiot bumps into me and calls my mother a whore, I'll walk away. If he corners me with his friends, and I can't get away, I 'll put my pen in him until I can run 4 miles away. (PS. I run 4 miles every morning just for that reason.) So what are you training for? To survive? Or to get better at your ground game? If it's the second one, why did you respond to this thread?!

[soho]

Are any martial arts really going to help if you fall pray to any of the scenarios you described? Two guys with crowbars, a carjacking at gun/knife point. Probably not. So if your real goal is "survival against these kind of situations maybe you should quit the martial arts and get a carry permit, or hire some body guards. I think your pen is offering a false sense of security in regards to situations like these.

Obviously no one wants to go to the ground in the street. That's a no brainier. Obviously it's best to have a compleat game.

"Here's a news flash: BJJ alone doesn't work on the street!"

Here's a news flash: Silat does not work no matter where you are. Looks cool though.

[PentjackSilat]

We can go on forever with a war of words. But you know what? When either of us gets mugged, then we will see who trained for survival, and who trained to play better with their classmates.

[soho]

Three guys with sledgehammers tried to mug me this morning. And you know what your right. I didn't use any bjj or clinch or even Thai Boxing. I snapped kicked one in the nuts. Then I quickly Pak saued to wedge to double paked to jut to straight blast to right foot forward outside silat sweeped the other. Them I slid between the third guys legs like I was sliding into first and head butted him in the balls a la mande munda.
My one regret was that I don't carry a pen like yours because I would have stuck in right in one of their necks

I was totally fooling my self-using training method where you work against "resistance." From now on it's all about cooperative training partners. I may even take up combat Ki.


Real Situations where bjj might come into play... just off the top of my head.

Being mugged in an elevator by a guy with no weapon but who is much bigger than you are. Happened to a friend of mine in a hotel in Atlanta about a month ago.

Throwing the last rowdy guy out of a bar before closing. Has happened to a friend of mine more than once. The last time he had to armbar the guy to get him to stop fighting.

Two real things that have happened to real people who I really know

On the other hand

Being shot and killed by a drunken jackass in a bar despite being a really good martial artist and tough as nails.

Being stabbed and killed during a melee in a crowded club, despite being a really good martial artist.

Two real things that have happened to real people who I really knew

Basically some people are lucky and some aren't

[bjjboulder]

Soho,
I just had to reply...Rock on man. I haven't seen to many intelligent guys on here in a while, cept Hawk...always the man!

I 've been following Matt Thorntons ideas for a while..what a guy!
He just makes it so clear. His philosophies really helped me feel ok with my self for leaving all of my wing chun, and kali knife flows behind in order to really learn to fight on the ground.

To regurgitate some of Matts' stuff....now I don't view myself as a urban commando, or a mystic of some sort who posesses the SECRET teachings of the indonesian archipelago, I no longer carry around 4 clipits, 2 bootknives, a balisong, and a Khukri everywhere I go ala Sayoc Kali and I finally donated my 6 pairs of comoflage pants to goodwill.--thank god I'm free of those!

Now I am just a guy trying to be the best athlete I can...And its a whole lot more fun!


Keep spreading the gospel,
Matt C

[Roy Gaflaer]

one on one BJJ works very well on the streets. Bite me all you want, because I can bite back.

[Flash]

Dude...

Originally posted by Roy Gaflaer
one on one BJJ works very well on the streets. Bite me all you want, because I can bite back.

Dude, is that a promise? I'm so turned on, I'm pitching a tent...