Has anyone ever tried to adapt BJJ for actual street defense?

[Bau]

Yeah the armbar may work...but personally I wouldn't want to use any ground submissions in a real fight...maybe if no one else was a around..

To me, a submission takes too much of your effort..you gotta arch, get proper leverage, squeeze it in etc...while youre going for your sub...someone else can come into the picture with out you knowing it cos you were too busy concentrating on your sub.
eg. you got your rear naked..youre concentrating on squeezing away...BAM...attacked from behind...
What I'm saying is...when youre doing your sub..you have to be 100% focussing on that sub in order for it to work..I dont want to give that kind of concentration to a move that
1.) might not end the fight
2.) leave me very vulnerable to another attacker

If I'm sitting upright ( mount , knee on stomach ) and striking away..I have a way better chance of seeing whats going on around me PLUS if someone else decides to join the party I have much better movement to avoid the attack..then hopefully get up and run away... what if I was stuck doing a sub?? I'd be LYING DOWN concentrating on getting my arm bar or whatever..open to hell knows what...you can still get hurt either way though..of course I'd prefer it if the whole fight stayed standing! like Bri said..getting the KO is a great way to END the fight.

There are too many VARIABLES in a street fight ... To say what you'll do and how you'll react is fine for some preparation..but big chance is that in a real fight ..youll be put into some kind of situation you never even thought of..

If and when the time comes..we can only hope that our training was enough...

Train hard and stay safe..

[HardcoreJJ]

well....

of course the armbar from guard works.....but
its too risky...Why even take the chance when sweeping someone from the guard is much easier and less risky.....if the sweep doesn't work, big deal-you go right back to guard and try again....if the armbar doesn't work, you may either wind up in a bad position or get punched, or both....why take the chance?
I have been in this position sparring with gloves a thousand times, and especially with untrained people, there so easy to sweep from the guard...remember everyone you face on the street knows how to punch, and will punch you if you go for an armbar, its just natural reaction, but NOBODY can stop your guard sweep if its at least half way decent

[Bau]

EXACTLY...

[Ryu (JKD?)]

Hardcore had a great post there. Sweeping untrained people who have little base on the ground is not that hard even if they're trying to hit you. It can get a little harder depending on the weight and size of the person but I pretty much agree completely with Hardcore's post.

As far as 2 on one..... well I actually had to use groundfighting in a self-defense situation against two people once. Lucky for me though that the one standing was focusing on trying to pull me off the other instead of kicking me in the head. But it was my grappling background that allowed me to fight and get back to my feet against even two people.

"Ryu:
When should you pound instead of fight for position and try to break? "

In my opinion the best time to ground and pound is when you have control of the person, and you can hit him uninterrupted. Ground and pound can become extremely tedious and not that damaging if you're constantly trying to fight for control, insert a punch here and there, etc. For a street fight I'd say you need to be able to hit uninterrupted. That's when the KO's happen.
Other than that, if the guy is good on the ground, I'd say to break away and get back to your feet. You're only gonna be able to do that with good grappling know how.

Ryu

[rockinronnie]

Off topic.....hey Ryu, are you the same Ryu that posted here
about a year ago under the same or similar name? Just
curious.

[Ryu (JKD?)]

Yeah it's me.
I don't have much time to come here though, I'm busy most of the time. I remember you too actually. How have you been?

Ryu

[HardcoreJJ]

mmm

exactly ryu, bau
untrained people have basically NO BASE whatsoever on the ground....without a base, you can still get off a decent punch using brute strength, but without a base, your gonna get sweeped all day long.....even if a guy is 250, if your sweep game from the bottom is decent(good white belt/new blue or higher) you should be able to sweep untrained people with ease
Ryu, your right though about big guys- You do have to be decent at BJJ to sweep them. But not a blackbelt or anything....Some who has taken a few classes isn't gonna be able to go out and start flippen biker guys from his guard blindfolded....but definitely, a few months of jj you should be able to

[PentjackSilat]

To summarize what I understand so far:

1) Submissions are too risky to go for. (See #3 below)

2) Ground and Pound from Mount or Knee on Belly is ideal because you are on top and able to flee if needed, and able to inflict serious damage and try to K.O. your opponent.

3) The simple sweep from the guard is the ideal move to try on the street because it is simple, direct, to the point, and doesn't require attention to detail which we all know goes to shit in a real fight with adrenaline pumping. and the sweep also allows you to go to step #2 above.

I like! I like! Keep 'em coming.

For instance:

I never liked knee on belly because it puts my groin right over their hand. What are your thoughts, and have you found a way to nullify the threat?

[Bau]

The Shaolin Iron groin technique...

NO really..I think those are the only guys who would be able to fight through someone squeezing their nutz!!

[Ryu (JKD?)]

I've noticed too.....but when you spar it and you're raining punches at their head, they can't even see your groin, let alone hit it.

But I've always perferred mount better... but sometimes you take what you get.

Ryu

[Bau]

Hmmm..true...The groin is very vulnerable in that position...but its just as vulnerable in any other ground position really....

and as ryu pointed out...youre raining punches down... attacking the groin is probably the last thing that would come to mind...if they do attack it....well..tough luck!!

[Yojimbo]

What about Gracie GRAPLE?

Isn't the G.R.A.P.L.E. system suppose to be a minimized set of techniques to be used specifically on the street by Cops? From I little I know about it is suppose to be very basica and easy to retain so it can be taught quickly. Has anyone here had any experience with GRAPLE?

I'm assuming most of us know more techniques than can be used on the street. I would be intrested to know which ones they kept in the GRAPLE system.

[JKogas]

If a "ground submission" is staring you in the face, you'd be an idiot NOT to take it. A choke or a shoulder lock will END a fight.

If there are others around.....we'll I wouldn't be fighting some guy AND his buddies. However, if I'm out where trouble may start (bars, clubs, etc) I'm usually out with friends. If his buddies want to enter into the fray...what's to stop MY friends (who train) from doing the same thing?

As for the groin vulnerability from Knee on chest; you work to control the near side arm. Grab his shirt, wrist or whatever. Use your other knee to pin that arm down (it works, trust me).

You have to remember, YOU are the one on top here in that position!! If the bottom guy tries to attack the groin against someone truly skilled in knee on chest, it's just going to mean even MORE punishment for him for doing so.

-John

[tuffguy]

I've used BJJ in the street before with a cracked up car thief. I closed the distance and clinched, and went right to his back(on the feet). Put a rear nacked on, and that was the end. He didn't give me much trouble after that. Although I did throw his ass down a flight of stairs becuase I was so pissed(he took at swing at my partner). He may not have actually been high at the time, but the way he acted and the crack pipe we found in his back pocket led me to believe he was.
Most people on the street don't know how to fight at all, let alone defend submissions. Chokes work best, it's hard for them to keep fighting when they are sleeping. But to be honest they are so confused about what you are doing and the fact that they can't move they tend to stop resisting. More often then not they get scared becasue you're doing some kind of "crazy ninja stuff" on them.

[Bau]

ground subs...

Whatever works for you...