Frank Shamrock vs Sakuraba....

[Ronin]

Sak is reputedly afraid to fly, hence his unwillingness to fight outside of Japan.

Maybe we can put him on a slow-boat to Brazil.

[royceg420]

If this fight ever took place I would hope Frank wins because I really,REALLY don't like Sak but I have to say Frank will probably go down.

[Bad Karma]

Frank all the way! He's too strong and well rounded for Sak to handle. I do know that if Sak were to showboat (mess around) with Frank, Sak will lose. Frank is too quick for that crap. Frank will be the most difficult fighter Sak has come across, to date. I think it would be a game of leg submissions between the two of them.

Peace

[GROUND CONTROL]

Yusul, No offense but I am assuming that you don't compete. If you think that leaving your home atleast 7 days before a fight because your body needs to adjust to the time change in Japan. Not to mention a 16 hr fight and jet lag. Then having to find a neutral spot to train, having to find a restaurant that serves food that you are accustomed to eating you are really crazy. Not to mention every close call is going to go in favor of Sak.

I agree with you that the Japanese are respectful of all fighters. But that is the least important of all the things that I mentioned. If you do compete in bjj tournies, do you think that you would perform better in a tournie in your home town or in a tournie where you must wake up extra early and take a 2 hr car ride to compete in? Be honest and then tell me that going to Japan to fight Sak doesn't make a difference.

[Jaguar Wong]

I'm pretty much the opposite of your opinions, royceg. I really dig Sak, because of his strange style, and the weird moves he does (plus he has a great fake low kick feint to a high lead hand hook or cross), but I think Frank will be too much for him. He's very smart about his training, and he trains his physical abilities as much as his technique. I don't recall seeing any signs of major gassing from Saku, and I know he's a very patient fighter, but I think Frank's strength and aggression will really be too much for him to handle in the long run.

BTW, I was watching UFC 27 again, and they were showing clips of Yuki Kondo fighting Frank Shamrock in a Pancrease rules event, and they said Kondo won. So I did a little searching and I found that he won in '96. I was just wondering if the different rules have much of an effect on Frank, or if Kondo just outclassed him that night? I saw the clip they showed, and he busts Frank square in the mug with a quick knee. I also really like Kondo, but I have to wonder if he could beat Shamrock today under Pride or UFC rules. I think Frank's the type of fighter that learns a lot from his losses (and some wins), and always evolves to become better.

I still want Sakuraba to win that one, though. If it happens that is.

[GROUND CONTROL]

I agree Jaguar. Lober beat Frank in 98 superbrawl. Look what happened to Lober in the UFC. Frank destroyed him. In 96 Frank didn't even know how to fight yet.

[Jaguar Wong]

Yeah, I also bring that last point up, because no one seems to harp on Frank about how many losses he has, but as soon as Sak loses a fight, they'll be all over him. I think as long Frank keeps his more scientific approach, he'll really start to come up with some major innovations to martial arts in general. I mean it's obvious that we're seeing another revolutionary period in martial arts with the huge surge in MMA NHB popularity. Look at the number of hybrid fighters nowadays, training more complete fighters. The mix of good ground skills has made great strikers even more dangerous.

I'll still be cheering for Sakuraba if they ever fought, though. I really like the silly stuff Sak does (like faking a Mongolian chop to set up a leg kick against Renzo, Or that Power Rangers style chop to the sides of the neck he tried inside Royce's guard). I just have more faith in Frank's training methods.

[yusul]

Ground Control: no offence taken, and no, i've never competed internationally nor in MMA. (informal rolling and sparring at other dojos). I'll see where i'm at in a few years and go from there. anyways i'd agree with you about the logistics part being hell; i've found going to different parts just in north america to compete can be tiring. i never said it was easy to compete on seven days notice, so you may have misunderstood my point. i agreed that fighting on short notice is a disadvantage and i think that 7 days is too short to fight at your best. but a better question is this: are fighters only getting 1 week? didn't Ken Sham's bio state that he went 2 to Japan (or whereever) 2 weeks b4 his fights? do other fighters (even the ones fighting Sak) only come on 7 days notice or do they come earlier? i think that would be an interesting question to find out, if anyone has the scoop. i know that if i were going to compete internationally, i would aim for 3 weeks and would arrive at least 2 weeks earlier. again, i am not saying it is easy fighting abroad, and i agree that Sak has a homecourt advantage (logistics, judges). I also never said it doesn't make a difference either (if you look at my last post GC, i had agreed with you that short notice does make a difference.). all i'm saying is that i've never heard of any foreign fighters, for whatever reason, actually complaining.

[Edited by yusul on 10-26-2000 at 07:10 PM]

[GROUND CONTROL]

Yusul- The point I was trying to make was that fighting in Japan is a distinct disadvantage for any foreign fighter. I doesn't matter if the fighter has 2 weeks notice(like guy Mezger) or 2 months. The point that I was making was traveling to Japan and all the problems that go along with it give Sak an advantage. In an earlier post you said that it didn't make a difference where they fought because the fans in Japan treated the fighters good.

As for Sak's fear of flying, what a crock! He has been to America on several occasions to train and to attend KOC after his fight with Royce. Sak doesn't fight here because he has no protection from Pride here.

Reread the post with this in mind and tell me what you think. We agree that short notice is a bad thing.

[Ronin]

GROUND CONTROL:

I agree that Sak has an advantage, but I think you're being a little hard on the guy. Pride is the greatest MMA event in the world, and the best-paying. Why would Sak take a pay-cut just to prove that he's an international bad-ass?

Be realistic, man.

[GROUND CONTROL]

Ronin that is a good point. But we will see if he is a real warrior with Frank's offer to fight here in the states. Frank said he has a Japanese business man ready to pay big money to do the fight. I guess we will have to see if Sak is willing to make the trip.

Also KOC is affiliated with Pride. They have sent fighters here to fight already. I believe Pride could still pay him if he chose to fight in this event. But I obviously don't know the behind the seen details to pull that off.

[david a]

If Ken Shamrock talks smack for his brother, Sak will
definitely want the fight. If you think I'm wrong,
just rent the ultimate Shamrock video. It was hard for
me to ralph and laugh at the same time.

I think Sak will run over Frank. Frank had a hard time will
Tito(da man!) and Sak is much better than Tito.
The fight will end with Frank in a bloody mess with Sak
in his gaurd. And if it goes the distance, Sak will
win the decision because of the Japanese crowd.
The only way Frank could win is if he fight Sak in the UFC
where the ref would step in prematurely from an attempted
knee bar or something. UFC judges only love the flashy,
glammy, fighters, who sell tickets for there next meal.

[Ronin]

Dave, that is totally ignorant.

You are probably trolling, but Frank is a complete bad-ass just like Sak. The only differences are athleticism and striking ability, which both favor Frank.

I think Frank could beat him anywhere, but he is obviously worried enough to want him on his home turf. But Sak gets that luxury all the time.

[GROUND CONTROL]

I believe Tito would also beat Sak. Tito would get the takedown in that fight. With his size and strength adavntage Sak will have to fight from the bottom. I don't think Sak could finish Tito either. He would take alot of punishmant in that fight.

[david a]

Have it your way Ronin, but Sak is no walk around.
Everone loses to someone eventually.
Forgive me for being a bit cavalier previously,
but I do, in all sincerity, believe that Sak will dominate.
As for Saks athleticism? Not too many fighters would walk
back in the ring after a monumental battle with Royce to
face an apponent such as Vovoychyn(sp?).