BJJ losing out in the MMA world?

[Guest]

Was Holyfield really in that much agony? I got the impression that he was leaping about excessively to emphasis what a blatant and unbelieveable breach of the rules there had been.

[Ice Phoenix]

knifer, I wasn't on about a high kick to the head, just one of those slow ass thigh kicks you always see in MMA competition. It'd usually be easy as hell to go down on a knee and wrap up the leg when they do that, and make a feast of their leg!

BTW, knifer, when that guy ripped that bit out of your ear, was it in response to you trying a dirty tactic, or was he the initiator?

[knifer]

Bri Thai,

Based on my personal experience, I would suspect that Hollyfield was jumping around because of the pain. I think he's a little more professional than to hop around like a rabbit as a way to object Tyson's treachery.

You guys know how much it hurts to get punched in the ear, so you can imagine how uselessly pain stricken you become after having it ripped off, or having a piece of it getting bit off.
It hurts like a bitch. It's a million times worse than getting your hair pulled off.

Ice Phoenix,

We just started beefing , and then shoving, and then when I clinched him for some knees to his gut he started yanking away at the top of my left ear. He yanked on it so hard and fast.

The pain was too much and I screamed, let go of him and ran around like Hollyfield.

Then I went to the hospital.

[auto]

Stop fighting guys

All this bickering without understanding. Alot of our experiences are apparently based on where we live. Here in the US our level of violence is extremely high. Especially both coasts. Thousands of people are murdered here every year just in La county alone.Anything from a simple argument to gang or drug related killings. European countries(including Australia) don't see a lot of this. One of you mentioned having dozens of fights and never being bitten or gouged. Consider yourself lucky--over here it's a standard. Take myself for instance. I have had well over a hundred 'altercations'. The front of my right calf is crushed from a baseball bat,I was stabbed through the right arm with a stilleto,bashed on the right side of my head with an iron bar(by an opponents friend),my left orbital was fractured behind the eye(my brain fluid was coming out my nose) again sideswiped by an outside opponent,my right knuckles broken 5 times-my left 4 times--the list goes on. My point is that you only sustain injuries like this from streetfighting. It's one of the undesiralbe sideeffects.
I believe what Knifer is trying to say is there is a big difference between real fighting and limited fighting. Could you imagine just for a second what would happen if NHB were actually 'no holds barred'? Numerous deaths,missing appendages,crushed larynxs', men blinded, damaged knees etc. It would be horrible(or wonderful to some). That's why they have rules and refs. Think of BJJ like boxing. Both have sets of rules to uphold(ie. no hitting below the waist in boxing or gouging in NHB). I love watching NHB/MMA just like you guys. Just take it for what it truly is though--an aggressive form of sport fighting similar to boxing but a little more. BTW, ours isn't the only country with violence--China is also pretty bad;especially with the crouding--the Middle East is also pretty aggressive(they have pretty good combat arts there too).

[Guest]

What a funny country the USA is. When the gun lobby want to argue that there should be no gun laws they say that guns help keep the peace and that the USA is relatively violence free because of guns.....but when they want to show off how tough they are (as if they're any more, or less, tough than people anywhere else) they go on about what a violent society they have.

In the words ofthe wisest American who ever lived - "Doh!"

[auto]

Well Bri

Our country is trying limit the sale/use of guns saying that most criminals here are using stolen weapons--which is ridiculous. How many 'citizens' keep illegal full auto weapons in their homes? As far as being tough and showing off--facts speak for themselves. How many people in say-- just your city alone have been murdered, raped, robbed, had their vehcles stolen at gunppoint, been followed home and robbed. How many of your correctional facilities are overpopulated with prisoners and 'violators of the law'? It's easy for a person in Europe to say how tough they are compared to the 'States'. However, our environement is vastly different from yours. Take for example some of your own countrymen that have visited us. About a year ago a nice German couple was murdered just from being somewhere they shoudn't have been. In their country a nice walk in the park was typical. Unfortunately for them, they didn't know this was the wrong park to walk at night. We are not tough because we want to be it is because we have to be.

[Guest]

auto - 2 things.

1. People in Europe are NOT trying to say how tough they are because of what a violent place it is they live in. It is people in the States that are doing that. Read the posts.

2. You have a perception that Europe has comparitively little gun and drug crime compared to the states. Where do you get that idea from?

[auto]

The facts speak for themselves

Like I said before I like to stick to the facts. A report came out not too long ago comparing levels of violence between countries. Japan and Denmark actually had some of the lowest numbers while the US had the highest along with China and Africa. The country with the highest increase of violence was Somalia. Europe was somewhere just above Japan. The Middle East also had very high numbers(everybody knows why though--Isreal vs. Palestine). The things that were compared were murder, sexual crimes, racial crimes and robbery. The ratio of inmates(I mean convicts) to facilities was also mentioned. Apparently, ours are overrun now and it's costing us billions of dollars each year to support them. It's also the reason many criminals are being released earlier than normal. I don't remember where the article was--World Report,USA Today, Newsweek. It was one of them though.

[Crash Stitches]

wow....didn't this thread just SAIL off the topic?

[Fighter]

Going back to eye gouging and biting.

These are two very important things that a good fighter must learn how to do and defend against. Bruce Lee developed defences againts both.

The eyes and groin are the two primary targets of a streetfight. If anyone has been in a fight they know it is very difficult to fight if you cant see or walk properly.

That is why NHB tounaments are CRAP, they should be called MMA. Very far from a real encounter.

[auto]

Thank You Fighter

Nailed it on the head, 'nough said.

[MrPoopy]

One of my biggest fears is that I will get into a real fight, use an armbar and the guy will start biting the leg that is over his face. When you put that leg over, you're more or less giving him a meal. And when he feels the pain in his elbow, he'll try anything to get out of it.

[Crash Stitches]

Some holds are not great for street defense, but if you wind up giving a guy a straight armbar and he lunches on your leg, that's when you thrust your hips up and arch your back. He won't bite for long, and if he does, keep wrenching the broken arm. The best advice would be to not try that kind of armbar on the street. If you naturally swing into it, just keep a leg over his chest, and the other leg hooked against his head...or you can leg-scissor his neck while you armbar him! That's the great thing about grappling, it's so fluid....

[Ice Phoenix]

Exactly, no need to worry about that MrPoopy!

If you have shitty technique and have to spend any longer than 1 second with your leg over his face before he's screaming in pain with a broken arm, then armbars are not for you!

[Brokenmace]

I can't see why someone would willingly go to the ground in the street. Granted, it is a must to know some ground fighting skills, and anyone who completely ignores it is a fool. However . . . In a street fight you can be sure of three things, as I believe auto so vividly elaborated on.

1) always expect "friends" to help out your opponent

2) always expect a knife or other weapon to get involved

3) the environment can be either friend or foe

Going to the ground under these conditions is suicide! Old Man Gracie developed his art during a time and in a place where someone capping you in the back of the head for your shoes was practically unheard of (so I've been informed).

It's not that BJJ isn't good. It's great! But you have to know when to use it. Don't flop into some brilliant black belt move just to get beaned on the head. Even John Danaher, in his tome BJJ: Theory and Technique says folks should avoid the ground in many street situations.

Some of the positions I see folks adopting in the UFC scare me. They look dominant, but they often straddle an arm or hand or foot, exposing their groin to strikes. I think it's unreasonable to practice moves that expose your soft bits for extended periods of time -- unless you are a sport fighter.

I spend most of my time in stand up fighting because A) when someone tackles you (as most do in the street to get you on the ground) they open huge opportunities and B) I'm going to do everything I can to avoid going to the ground, and if I have to I'll bite, gouge, and pinch to get him off!

BTW, (this is going to sound strange) I know how to rip a man's face off. I was wondering if anyone else has been taught this technique. It's not a particularly safe move, but if someone tries to bite your fingers it can work wonders. Of course, it is a last resort.