Reality Bites... Hard

[moma_news]

There's an outstanding re-print article on my website by Senshido instructors Marc Ste. Marie and Richard Dimitri called "Reality Bites... Hard".

I'm sure you'll enjoy it as it makes an impact on you regarding the harshness and reality of self-defense through the eyes of the victim.

Check it out at:

http://www.MartialDirect.com/articles/reality.shtml

Post your thoughts!

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[StraightBlaster]

nhb bashing huh? The one thing they don't tell you in that artical is that NHB training is the best thing to prepare you for the street. Why? because its as close to street fighting you can get without going to the hospital after each class. Thats the point of NHB, its as close to real as you can safely get. And its no problem to throw in a mass attack or weapon drill or two into your NHB training program. It takes a NHB fighter an very very short time to learn whats needed to survive a street fight. It takes a nonNHB fighter........ well... its pretty rare for a non NHB fighter to be actaully prepared for the street. How do you prepare for real fighting without coming as close to it as safley possible? And no Nhb fighter is going to hold someone in thier guard in the street. What street fighter could hold mount on a NHB fighter? What, did the street fighter wrestle in high school? So did over half the guys in your NHB class. There's no way around it. You have to spar with the least amount of rules possible to prepare your self for fighting.

[Ryu (JKD?)]

I've been to Richard Dimitri's site quite a bit, and I very much respect and like him as a martial artist. I also highly respect his passion for trying to help people, and his passion against criminal behavior, etc. I feel the same.

Having talked to him on several occasions, I think his article might be a bit misunderstood. I don't think he is realistically saying that the physical training of NHB is not functional. NHB gives the body and mind a very close understanding of what it means to be in combat. Being able to be "battle hardened" by NHB, MMA, or Shootfighting training will indeed give someone the athletic ability and "metal" to physically dominate a lot of people.
However, I think what Mr. Dimitri is saying is that there is a difference when you are fighting to live. No one is fighting to stay alive in NHB. To say so would be foolish. Yes the possibility of dying might be there, but its a rarity.
The fighters are there to compete, and beat the other into submission using as many skills as the sport allows. It is very realistic. And it is an important aspect (I think) to proper "streetfight" defense.

However he is right in saying things are a bit different. What he is talking about are not "fights". He's talking about violent crimes.
Being afraid of dying at that moment does a lot to you. It is a crisis situation and not just realistic competition. The physical aspects of MMA can prepare you to physically defend yourself perhaps more so then other NON-contact training. I believe that.
However, I think Richard is talking about "training" certain street behaviors that are not associated with competition.

Things like de-escalation skills.
Semantics
Street Awareness
Adrenaline dump management
Periphrial (sp?) vision awareness
non-telagraphic encroachment "stances"
First strike principles
Escape route awareness
hidden weapon awareness
body language
trigger words
street "interviews"

among other things. None of these things are taught in any NHB school. But a lot of these things don't necessarily have to be conclusive to "martial art" training at all.

The bottom line is. To be as prepared as you can in the street, you have to be physically dominant, mentally dominant, and emotionally dominant. There is a clip of Ralph Gracie getting into a real fight with another fighter at a grappling tourney, and things went through the same "game" so to speak. Up in each other's faces, staring down, cussing out, sucker punch...

To deal with that strategically, you need other kinds of training. But when the real stuff happens..... you better have that physical skills to back you up. NHB provides that I feel with just a few modifications needed.

Ryu

[Fighter]

This guy sound sweet Ill have to check out his site...... Form what Ive heard, I recomend it.

[auto]

Finally someone hits on the head

That article is great. Many fighters do not understand the non functionality of grappling in REAL fights. A question was posed "How do you prepare for real fighting?" Well simple, you go out and fight. Unfortunately, there is a price to pay for your "gaining of experience". I know because I have been there. I almost killed a man with my bare hands during one of my "excursions". The state grabbed me by my collar and said "Well mister badass we have a special place for people like you". A beautiful place filled with black souls...men with hearts of stone...evil people. Guess what, there is no better arena than the "joint". Forget BJJ,TDK,NHB and the rest. While a NHB guy is busy grappling chunks of flesh are coming off his body, thumbs are in his eye sockets trying to pop them out, fingers come up missing from being bitten off, testicles are being torn off... get the picture ? and that doesn't even include the shanks that appear and disappear into thin air.
What good is a Royce Gracie arm bar when a guy is biting a chunk out of your calf or inner thigh? Survival in there depends on you being able to incapacitate the other in the shortest time possible. Usually that means shanking someone in the neck or other vunerable areas of the body. I am very much older now and far more wise. I have not fought anyone for a long time now and prefer it that way. I have been reading your posts for a long while now and it seems to be the same thing all the time. Which is better, who makes the best streetfighters, which should I learn. Take a look in the mirror and be very honest with yourself and ask "How many REAL fights have I been in? Am i willing to pay the price for maiming or killing someone? How exposed are my sensitive/delicate body parts while I am grappling? Do I have the speed power coordination balance to be truly effective? How is my reaction time? Can I beat my opponent to the punch or will I have to parry/block/absorb his strikes? Everyone can study MA however, not everyone can become a great fighter. There are certain attributes that MUST be there. And the ONLY way to know how good/efective you are is to go out and fight. Just be prepared to accept the consequences.Later.

[Ice Phoenix]

auto, I can't say I agree with alot of what you said!

For a start, sure, if you're stupid enough to go into a high-security prison with convicted armed burglars, rapists and murderers, and start a fight, well, ya, you probably will get bitten, fish hooked, eye gouged, and possibly even ahh... violated too... so to speak.

But in the 'vast majority' of fights your opponent doesn't want to kill you or permanently debilitate you for life, they simply want to give you black eyes and maybe a broken nose.

And so since most folk arn't going to immediately start using such dirty tactics on you, how do you think your opponent is going to react to your attempted eye gouges and bites?

I'll tell you... they're going to resort to such tactics themselves!
Congratulations!!! You've just upped the danger level of the whole situation and have put yourself at far greater risk!

If everyone thought dirty tactics would do for any fight situation, nobody would do the martial arts!

Just remember any fool can simply think, yeah, if I get into a fight I'll gouge out his eyes - any fool including your opponent, so maybe less severe methods would be useful, right?

It's what else you know that can give you the edge over your opponent, allowing you to do stuff and fight in ways that he cannot, and besides, try eye gouging when some punk swings a broken bottle at your head!

[Ryu (JKD?)]

The most important thing to remember in this kind of context, is that you need to be realistic. Realism goes way beyond how you fight. I hear too many people say "I'll just rip their eyes out or use my trusty .45 magnum!"
Don't kid yourself about how far you are really willing to go in a self-defense situation. Are you certain you will pull your weapon and fire no matter what the attack? Will you kill another human being without any fear or hesitation? How do you know? Have you done it before? Are you really willing to accept all the legal consequences that will follow such an act?

Being "real" is actually quite difficult to do because it means we must be "honest" with ourselves. You have to figure out your weaknesses and not make excuses.

There are MANY different kinds of streetfights. Some can be as pathetic as two bicyclists slapping each other to as deadly as a fight against a murderer who is looking to take your life.
Our laws require you to know the difference between reasonable and accessive force. No one talks about this. Everyone is so busy trying to seem "realistic" that they don't even consider "reality".

I tried to show a middle ground on the issue, but it probably won't help. Oh well.

Bottom line is this: Fighting is unpredictable and usually very physically demanding. Better have as much good skill under your belt as you can, plus some experience, and street savvy.

Ryu

[StraightBlaster]

Auto,

A NHB fighter wouldn't grapple in a street fight. He would be the one that is best suited to avoid grappling. And thats the whole reason i study grappling... because i don't like it. but since i know it i don't get stuck there.

What do you do if you want to avoid getting punched? study boxing.

What do you do if you want to avoid getting grappled? study grappling.

[Ryu (JKD?)]

There's a difference between street grappling and NHB anyway. Having dominant position on top gives you much more leverage to pound, eyegouge, or take out a knife and start stabbing. Going to "the ground" in the street does not mean jumping into guard or waiting an hour for him to tire so you can get that triangle choke. "Going to the ground" happens all the time, and many streetfights are actually won from there. A strong groundpounding from mount or knee on stomach can knock someone out in less then 10 seconds if done properly.

"Don't ever go to the ground in the street!!" is just as much nonsense as saying "always go to the ground in the street."
There's a place and time for everything.

Fighting is too multi-dimensional to make "rules" like that.

Well anyway I've said all I could.

Ryu

[Mad Dog]

RYU is correct....nuff said!!!

[Fighter]

As for fighting in a High Security prison. If you saw a chick being raped violently would you not try to stop the rapist. Who are the type of people who end up in jail.

The fact is anyone con prepare for something they know that is coming, you must be able to perform the unexpected......

Think about that one!

[auto]

I expected bombardment

FIrst off.IcePhoenix. My ending up in the "pen" was not from stupidity. I went too far in a fight and paid the price. Second, you do not pick fights in there, they pick you and leave you with no choice. Third--and this is where the experience of streetfighting comes in-- apparently few or none of you have ever been in many streetfights. Streetfighters come in all shapes and sizes. Each one comes at you a different way and yet a limited number of ways. The only ones who fight clean are the dummies without experience. The "truly gifted ones" come at you dirty every 'friggin' time. Usually straight for the balls. After a number of these "experiences" you learn to expect the worst and yes--streetfighters do bite, gouge, grab, rip,tear, pick up foriegn objects etc. As far as upping the danger level, thats ridiculous. Once you have taken someone's eyes it is OVER. When you bite it is to make someone let go. Usually he is so confused by the pain he does not know how to react because most likely he has never been bitten before and he will hesitate to take you down again. Again, experience dictates this.Ryu--I did almost kill someone without hesitation. Luckily I was pulled off but hurt others in the process. Fighting is unpredictable though, I agree totally.Also, how many NHB fighters train to main or kill? It is not there first reaction. How will they react when someone grabs their hand and bites down? I am not saying not to grapple.What I am referring to is efficiency. If you have to go to the ground it is because you failed to incapacitate your opponent quickly enough. But if you do end up on the ground you better know what you are doing.What is a grapplers moment of weakness? Anyone?----When he shoots. Are you able to avoid the shoot? It depends on your experience level, your reaction time/speed, your sense of distance(many NHB fighters fail badly here-always out of position).You also said box a boxer...Unfortunately, what I have seen of the NHBers is they are akward and very slow and their idea of defense against a punch is to either pull the head back with the chin up or duck under the other guys slow ass swings and grapple(which they are excellent at BTW).And oh yeah,Ice, I have been in many a bar room fight and been slashed at and jabbed at with broken glass. Just how good do you train anyway? It is simply a matter of slipping, ducking, snapping back, sidestepping or just beating him to the punch especially the lowline area with a kick or a finger jab to the eyes. You ever see a guy with his knee wrenched unable to get back up to fight? I have. Experience guys, experience and training against a wide variety of opponents is what prepares you. One last note, which is more powerful a knife or a grenade? Now lets assume your standing in 4'x4' room which is most efficient? Which would you rather be if fighting someone in a pool--a grappler or boxer? It is not either/or it is both--just be aware of the weaknesses and plusses in each.

[Fighter]

Well said auto. That was a great post explaining the difference between NHB (supposed NHB) fighting and actual fighting. Keep it up.

[Ice Phoenix]

auto, I will say that wherever it is that you live in California must be one crazy ass area to live, cause it sounds as if seasoned streetfighters must roam the streets day and night searching for your ass!

[Quote: "As far as upping the danger level, thats ridiculous. Once you have taken someone's eyes it is OVER."]

If you are successful, yes, but most eye gouge attempts I've seen have simply been that - attempts.
Most half dim-witted folk arn't gonna just lie/sit/stand there and have their eyes ripped out!

And besides, when you say it is OVER, yes for you and social freedom. Jail is likely.

I guess what everyone simply needs to consider is their lifestyle and the places they hang out, the people they meet, etc. in their typical life, and then prepare for the most likely fight situations that may arise from it, whether it be fighting with some tough guy on campus, or some PCP-affected resistant suspect in harlem.

Obviously different methods are best appropriate for different situations.

[auto]

A curious question

Sorry for long post guys. Guess I got carried away. Anyway, Ryu I notice that you have JKD with a question mark by your name. I have also noticed the mention of JKD in many other places. I have been "out of the stream" for a while but if I remember correctly, the only two people to recieve certificates in JKD were Teddy Wong and Dan. Dan decided to move his efforts more towards the phillipino arts and Ted refused to teach after Bruce died. I sparred with a friend who studied JKD-well actually Jun Fan Gung Fu-and he studied in I belive it was Torrance at the time under Dan. I was 17 and he was 18. When did JKD begin to flourish? and who is doing the teaching? Is it actual JKD? or just a bunch of different arts put together?