JKD and Judo questions

[E_Kim]

Hi I was originally planning on taking BJJ and MT but I wanted to see what some other options were and I saw that a lot of you think JKD is a good striking art. How does it compare to MT and would it be an effective art in a NHB tournament? And also how effective would Judo be in a NHB tournament and I heard that Judo and BJJ are almost the same except Judo has throws and BJJ has more groundwork.

[E_Kim]

O yeah and how is Wing Chun and Jun Fan JKD different from regular JKD?

[doubleouch]

The arts realy don't matter. Go check out some schools and see how much their training resembles nhb fighting and that will give you the answer. I have seen great and lousy JKD and MT. It is the "aliveness" that counts.
straightblastgym.com

As for the differences between jun fan and JKD look around on the net and you will find a wealth of info on that one. Be careful though it is a very political discussion!

[Maxximus]

JKD is aimed mostly towards self defense/streetfighting. It'll condition you to aim for the groin and throw biu jee strikes at the eyes. From a practial application point of view, that is one advantage it has over Muay Thai. It is also more versatile and emphasizes quicker footwork than MT. But on the other hand, IMO some of the techniques (such as a lot of the more complex Jun fan trapping hands combinations) are pretty useless, and the conditioning is nowhere near the level that a reputable thai gym would take you to. And although JKD philosophy preaches realistic hardcore training in an endless mantra, from what I've seen most JKD schools don't even spar that hard. In a lot of JKD schools there is a great amount of emphasis put on all the different possible techniques you could do in all the different ranges of fighting, etc etc but they end up knowing a bunch of different things poorly rather than knowing any one thing very well. But this obviously is not always the case. it depends on the instructor, school, etc. If you want a well rounded approach to street oriented martial skills, I'd say it wouldn't be a bad idea to find a good JKD academy. But if you simply want to develop the strongest possible striking skills and want to have fighter's conditioning then you can't go wrong with a good MT fighting gym.

JFJKD is the approach to JKD where they use only the ideas and techniques of JKD founded by Bruce Lee himself. Whereas other camps of JKD (mainly JKD Concepts) has the philosophy of using anything that works, which means crosstraining in a vast variety of styles such as the filipino arts, Bjj, savate, shoot wrestling, etc. A lot of JKDC guys nowadays do not even have a strong background or emphasis in Bruce Lee's original Jun Fan techniques. Wing Chun is a wholly different art. It is Bruce Lee's mother art style of kung fu. JKD resembles wing chun in concept and somewhat in technique, but they are still completely different. JKD involves a lot of distance fighting, kickboxing skills and quick footwork whereas wing chun is almost purely a close range system. The footwork is completely different. Whereas JKD is on the toes and moves in and out quickly, wing chun footwork is more solid and structured. Theoretically, this gives it less mobility and speed in the long range, but more power and penetration once they close in. The freestyle application of wing chun revolves around the sticking hands exercises, there is usually not much emphasis on boxing or kickboxing type sparring. IMO this limits its practicality.

I don't know anything about judo so i won't comment on that.

[E_Kim]

Thanks for the replies and I think i'll stick with Muay Thai as my other striking art but does anyone here have any info about Judo?

[JaredExtreme]

I was at my college gym a couple days ago and I saw these guys doing the trapping/swinging hands excercise and was stunned. The excercise was completely fruitless and I feel sorry for anyone who actually tries to apply it in a streetfight.

Don't even get me started on the guy who I saw doing Shotokan Kata....

[Guest]

Judo.

Judo was one of the arts that developed from Japanese Jiu Jitsu. Things went full circle when Brazillian Jiu Jitsu then developed out of Judo, but we won't go into that.

It is now quite a complex Olympic sport involving throws, sweeps and groundwork (allowing strangles, chokes and arm locks). Japanese Jiu Jitsu was,more often than not, trained in an unrealistic way. One partner would pretend to attack the other, who would then "defend" himself by using a set piece. They did not really have any kind of sparring, as they liked to believe that their techniques were too deadly. This gave them an unrealistic idea of how proficient they were.

Judo was developed as a contest, where the two combatants could properly test each other in combat, though many of the potential killing techniques were removed. But, nonetheless, they could actually "fight" in a non cooperative way.

When the Japanese Police wanted to choose an art in which to train its memers they organised a competition amongst the various schools of Jiu Jitsu. Judo won hands down, and is still taught to them today.

For combat effectiveness its strengths lie in the fact that a good Judoka can throw and then strangle/arm lock people as a speciality. Judoka are very fit and used to taking punishment, making them good fighters. It is very well established throughout the world, and is often very inexpensive for classes. The grading system is strict, so you are unlikely to see wimps wearing Black belts. They earn their grades.

There are weaknesses, though. They train to a myriad of rules, some of which detract from it's efficiency as a fighting art. There are no strikes, so combatants can approach each other without learning how to defend against such attacks. Even their groundwork can suffer. If one Judoka is being held down, but manages to get his opponenet in half guard, the referee will call the hold down "broken", so they don't always learn proper escapes. In a real fight the opponent would pummel his head in! Also, the Japanese are not noted for their willingness to accept new training methods, so the art has not developed as it could have done.

All in all I think Judo would be an excellent art to be done alongside some kind of striking art, as long as you keep it's deficiencies in mind when training.

[Ice Phoenix]

I think Judo should be done sparingly.

Focus on learning say 4 different throws, the most practical one's taught, and then drill them in so you are fluent with those four from all the different angles, positions, etc.

Get a training partner to attack you in variety of different ways, but restrict yourself to using one of those 4 throws only to defend yourself with and then after a while you'll be so effective with those 4 there'll be no use in learning all the dozens of other flashy throws that you'll never get on an alive aggressor!

If I remember correctly world-class Judoka's are usually only fluent with 4 or so throws and normally rely on just 2 or so to win competitions, so keep that in mind!

[thesamurai]

jeet kun do is aimed at striking you oppenent as he is striking you but you have to be faster than him, wing chun has some very effective moves. Ju jitsu in generla involves strikes with arms and legs locks aswell as throws takedownns and hold downs, in judo you dont punch or kick or lock just throws and take downs.what you want to do is do 1 lesson in each class you are thinking of joining see different clubs and see which one you find the best. if you want to be a nhb fighter you will have to train for a long time and it will take alot of hard work and practice. you may want to view the article on "what makes a successful mma fighter" if you need more advice.

[Ryu (JKD?)]

Bri Thai gave some good info on judo.
Depending on what school you go to you can recieve very good or very poor instruction. Usually, schools that are backed by lots of competition and groundwork are the best. Many judoka crosstrain in wrestling and BJJ these days. I do, and met many judoka who did the same.
Bri is definitely right when he says that the higher level judoka are very athletic and very tough.

Judo does suffer some weaknesses as was mentioned. The groundwork could be better (though this is happening), a lot of the throws really require some sort of jacket to grip, etc.

However, I feel through experience that a good judo school will greatly help your athleticism, grappling skill, and competitive spirit. So if you have the chance, go for it.

Ryu