Who killed JFK and why?

[Hawk]

Okay, things are slowing down again, so lets get it rockin.
Me & Tony 10 talked about this at the end of John Bennent's thread so lets hear what ya'll think. As for me, I feel there were at least three 2 man teams unknown to each other
made up of professional shooters with different allegiance.
IMO it was possible that LHO fired some shots however he did not hit anyone nor was he trying to hit anyone, however
IMO the greater evidence is he did not fire a shot. Did the Gov. have anything to do with it? IMO Yes, without a doubt in the cover-up and elements of the CIA, SS, FBI, along with others in the actual plot. Was the Mafia involved? Yes, without a doubt, however they could not have pulled it off alone. Was the Warren Commission a coverup? Yes, IMO.
Was this a first in our history? No, the Lincoln killing was orchestrated by his own cabinet and JFK's murder was set up in a similar fashion IMO. How many shots were fired?IMO a minimum of 6. Okay, let's hear what you think and I'll back up my opinion's with facts as we go along if anyone has any interest in this topic.
Hawk

[Biker]

There is a series of books by Robert Anton Wilson about a secret society called the Illuminati. Don't bother with the series, just read "Masks of the Illuminati." It's pretty good. There's just a small bit about JFK, though.

[Hawk]

Thanks Biker,
I'm not familiar with it so I'll check it out.
Hawk

[EJ]

For more on the Illuminati and other (kookier) theories, read William Cooper's BEHOLD A PALE HORSE. When yer done LOL-ing, use it to line a bird cage.

I think JFK was whacked by the US Government. It was a military/FBI operation.

[Karlinhos]

Hawk, it kinda surprises me (but pleasantly so) that you're taking such a strong "conspiracy" stance and being so public about it. I mean, being a government type official yourself... but that's just how you are, a take it or leave it type of guy. That takes balls and I admire you for that. Aren't many like you around.

I really don't have a thought either way about the assasination, but I do find it very interesting and am open to hearing anyone's stance/thoughts.

Interesting thoughts so far Hawk...

Karl

[Mickey Finn]

So was LHO set up to take the fall for the hit?

[Ronin]

Hawk:

Like I said before, your "evidence" appears to be all circumstantial, i.e. numerous individuals "hated" JFK (what powerful person isn't hated by his enemies?), LHO couldn't possibly have made the shot, LHO's killing was too convenient, etc., etc.

That isn't evidence. It's suspicion. I am skeptical. If you want to convince me, first dissect the lone gunman theory. You're a weapons expert. Why couldn't LHO, a decorated marksman, have made the shot? Who was the initiator/mastermind of the conspiracy? What was his/their motive? How was Jack Ruby convinced to throw his life away by killing Oswald? Why aren't all of the conspiracy theorists dead?

Lay it on me pal!

[Hitchahard]

Hawk:

You'll think I am crazy, but I truly believe LHO acted alone. I think the facts got so clouded during this event that the truth lied within the obvious. Anyway, I feel that any conspiracies related to this would have been uncovered by now.

Regards,

Hitch.....

[Mako]

As usual, i'll play both sides of the issue here.

The federal govt. has a difficult time handling anything in a efficient manner, so if it was a govt. conspiracy, I will go past Hawk and say a minimum of 215 people were involved.

However, 100 of them were on government leave, 75 of them were at a luncheon for the 10 others retiring. Another 15 were at a leadership training seminar (in New Orleans... part of the conspiracy?) 5 others were having sex with RFK in D.C., and 9 more (all men of course) were lounging around J. Edgar Hoover's House (his mom wasn't there.).

This will prove, without a doubt, that LHO was the ONLY person who could have killed JKF.

[EJ]

Yo Mick...

LHO was involved to some extent, but he was set up to be the patsy by the big-wigs.

[Tony10]

Ronin let me just be clear about one thing: the info that I've posted has all been factual, not supposition or unproven theory. Whether or not it all adds up to proof or not IS theoretical, so you are right on that count. However, those people really did die (all of them, and in the manner I told you), Giancana really did deliver the election to JFK (whom then betrayed him by allowing RFK to go after the mob) and you can pick up hundreds of books that will document how much the parties Hawk and I have mentioned hated JFK.

-The idea that LHO was an expert marksman is not concrete. Many allege this was disinformation attached to him to make him a more easily acceptable assassin, considering that numerous top marksmen since the shooting have attempted to re-create his alleged feat and all have failed. Was he really that good? Also, ask yourself: if you're going to need to squeeze off enough rounds to nail a target in a moving car, why the hell would you bring a bolt-action rifle? And then LEAVE IT SITTING THERE in your sniper's nest? A brilliant marksman, but a complete moron?

You may recall that MLK's alleged assassin, after allegedly hitting MLK from long distance, than allegedly had the presence of mind to run out of the boarding house and jump in his car, after tossing the a bag with the rifle and easily incriminating evidence in a doorway NEXT DOOR? Why wouldn't he take the bag IN THE CAR?

-More on LHO-as-shooter:
-If you believe in the "magic bullet" theory, you believe in something that defies all laws of physics, forensic science and gun expertise
-Also against physical law: the kill shot seen in the Zapruder film. If you know anything about physics or guns, a fatal shot from the back would send him FORWARD, not back-and-to-the-left as we've all seen.

We've outlined a lot of motives.

How did they convince Ruby to off Oswald? Who knows? Only Dorothy Killgallen knew, and she "died" before going to press.

And I've already provided you with an extensive casualty list of potential squealers...

Don't get me wrong, until somebody comes forward we'll never be able to say exactly how or why it went down.

But to think after all this time and information that LHO was a lone nut who did JFK is sort of flat-earth society thinking, don't you think?

No offense intended...

[Jaguar Wong]

I gotta say, Hawk, you and Tony10 have really piqued my interest in the subject. I was always just wandering around thinking (in a dullard's voice) "The magic bullet theory makes it fishy to me," but That's it. I never looked further, or even read much about it.

Tony10, I'll admit that those people dying like that is really suspicious, and it does make me think more about it. I'm also wondering what kind of time frame all the deaths occured in (did they all die within the same year, or did they occur over the course of 10-15 years?).

Other than that, I have the truth. If you rewatch the video, JFK doesn't reel back-and-to-the-left because he was hit, he was clearly dodging the bullet. The guy in the passenger side, seeing this, decides that the attempt failed, so he has to take matters into his own hands. It looks like there are a couple of guys trying to cover JFK, but the real killer is the one leaping over the seat, and locking on a flying triangle choke. I'll admit in the chaos and confusion it wasn't text book perfect (he didn't have the arm locked right), but it got the job done. Watch it all again, and tell me I'm wrong, go ahead, I dare you.

[Hawk]

Okay Ronin,
First, whoever told you that LHO was a decorated marksman?
Bottom line is that his USMC records show he was not a decorated marksman. Second, even a decorated marksman would have had an impossible task doing what LHO was suppose to do
with a Corcana Carbine. Qualifying in the Marines at the time LHO was in would have been done either with the M-1 Garand or the M-14. Both of these rifles are as accurate as they come in an automatic version. They are excellent. The 6.5 Italian Carbine, at its best, wasn't even in the same class with these rifles and the one LHO had was war surplus. Further, to this day no sharpshooter has been able to duplicate LHOs supposed feat and quite a few have tried.
One thing is a little funny. The first report from the officers' that found the weapon, and at least one knew weapons, was that it was a Mauser, a 7.65 I think. Now, there was a Mauser that vaugely resembled the 6.5, but it was a much better rifle, which has led to theories that there was a shooter at the Depository, but it wasn't Oswald
and wasn't Oswald's rifle. Well, why should conspiracy people be killed when its easier to threaten or kill all the witnesses.
Mickey,
How was Oz set up? One of the less read books was by a Deputy Sheriff out of Orange County, CA. The guy had been a member of Blue Light during WW2, and was head of security for Goldwater during his campaign. His book-Appointment in Dallas, states he talked to one of the assassins who was one building over from the Depository. The story was Oz was in Gov. employ (which has been substantiated) and was approached by the SS to fire some shots randomly around Kennedy's vehicle to scare Kennedy because supposedly he always ran around in the Caddy without the safety bubble. Now Oz was supposed to do this & stand in the window at which time the shooter would blow Oz away. However, after the shooter fired twice at JFK Oz stood in the window, but no SS people shot at or saw Oz. The shooter said he didn't know if anyone else was shooting or not. Now, the writer has credentials out the yin yang, but the story doesn't hold up because Oz, as its been proven would have had to be smokin' to get down the stairs where he was seen by the manager and a motocycle cop just after the shooting. The shooter probably told enough truth to give this guy something, but lied too if the story has any credibility at all. He said bullets of Oz bounced off the concrete and that's been proven to be true as far a bullets bouncing off the concrete, also the fact of where they bounced from would have meant a terrible shot or someone trying to miss on purpose. The other thing is the Secret Service were very slow getting into action as far as JFK was concerned, however not so with LBJ, who was covered immediately after the first shot.
Karl,
Thanks. I mean, if you can't speak what you feel is the truth in a "free" country, WTH!!
Hawk

[Tony10]

Ah, true, Jaguar....

You know, now that I look at the film it appears Jackie O did have him in a side gi choke, using his suit jacket...

The time frame on the deaths was more less in the next couple of years, with some exceptions.

[Edited by Tony10 on 10-25-2000 at 03:23 PM]

[Hawk]

Tony 10,
The mayor of Dallas was the brother of C.P. Cabell, a deputy
director in the CIA under Dulles. Cabell was fired by JFK at the same time Dulles was after the Bay of Pigs.
Hawk