Who killed JFK and why?

[heem]

70 Greatest Conspiracies

For all you diehard conspiracy theorist, the book "The 70 Greatest Conspiracies of All Time" by Vankin & Whalen is worth reading. It covers a lot of different conspiracies including JFK.
heem

[Ronin]

Punchie:

Sorry, that was a flip remark about some of Hawk's conspiracy theories.

ZOG stands for Zionist Occupation Government, which many right-wing militias believe is a Jewish-dominated UN scheme to conquer the U.S. I wasn't implying that Hawk believes in this by the way.

I was trying to be funny, and once again failed.

Forgive me!

[Joe Manco]

The only time you're funny is when you try to be serious. At this I truly do laugh.

Joe

[Ronin]

Read my quote and tremble Manco!

[Hawk]

Newbie,
Sorry it took me so long. Been out in the woods getting ready for Deer season. Now, in general, a carbine is a short rifle normally around 20 inches and a regular rifle is around 24 inches. The first report was that the rifle was
a 7.65 Mauser. Also I did not say Kennedy was shot with a 6.5 because I don't believe he was. If I said that I misprinted. Oswald owned a 6.5 Italian Carbine that was said to have been used, which very few people believe. As to the times etc., I have read the times although I don't remember them. One thing guys, look at the picture posted by Mickey Finn of Ruby popping a cap on Oz. See anything strange or unusual for a lone nut killing Oz so Jackie won't have to testify? Okay, if you haven't seen it yet, let me tell you. Jack is pulling the trigger with his middle finger. It's an old hit man trick when you know you may only have one shot. You lay the index finger on the barrel so the bullet goes where the finger points. This technique was usually used in large cities and big crowds where there was a lot of noise to hide the report of the pistol. It was used with a revolver, .38 or below. Used quite a bit by Organized crime with devastating results.
Hawk

[Tony10]

Yes, our man Jack Ruby.

Who appeared at Parkland Hospital as JFK's body was inside after the shooting.

Who corrected a reporter at the press conference (!) with Oz after he was arrested, pronouncing the name of a communist organization for the reporter. What was a mobster strip club owner even DOING at the press conference?

And who "slipped in" to that police parking garage basement, from the inside, and managed to blow away the alleged presidential assassin before a trial could be held?

And don't forget those two car honks down there that occurred just as Oz was being led out, just as Ruby appeared...

Coincidence....?

[Edited by Tony10 on 10-31-2000 at 05:06 PM]

[nhb_wanabe]

only ingorance

would allow you to believe that LHO killed JFK alone or otherwise.

yeah, mobsters at the height of their power were total amateurs at killing people. had no clue how to snipe.

The cia had been in bed with the mob since anti-german infiltration activities in the new york dockyards in 1943 and the chinese revolution funding ole Chang Kai Shek with herion money.

the cia dealing dope to fund contras was old hat, they'd been in the trade since the 50s.

only your choice to ignore this sh!t makes it seem inconceivable to you.

[Ronin]

nhb wanabe:

All I'm saying is that there is so far no proof, only a lot of suppositions.

Some people are far too easily convinced in things they really want to believe. People would rather believe "the bad guys" killed JFK, than that a lone nut could kill the president with a lucky shot. I think it unsettles us, and makes us realize our own vulnerability.

But enough psycho-babble. It's entirely possible that there was a conspiracy, but I will remain skeptical until I see incontrovertible evidence. I'm stubborn that way.

[nhb_wanabe]

read a book

do you mean if someone shows you a video of the sniper taking the shot?

there is plenty of evidence.

there is practically no such thing as incontrovertible evidence.

what i'm saying is, read any number of books on the subject.

it sounds like you havn't read anything but just don't think it is plausible. Those of us that have read books on the subject don't have a whole lot of doubt.

"The Mafia Murder of JFK" is one to read. heavily documented and sourced.

[Tony10]

Actually, Ronin, it would be far more comforting to me to think that some lone nut shot JFK for God knows what and it was just a senseless act and a tragedy.

When you talk about "proof," let me issue this challenge. Take your theory about Oz being the lone gunman and try and prove it. Try and prove the official story. Why do you think all these people started questioning the Warren Report? Because the lone-nut scenario just won't wash, and even back then people caught on to that?

What do you think of that? It's something most people don't think about: assume Oz did it. Now prove it. It just can't be done. The Warren Report is the most pathetic example of that.

I didn't dream up the idea of this conspiracy; after much research, it was undeniable and when you realize that, you think about how our great nation was f***ed over not once, not twice, but who knows how many times by these invisible forces. Forces that, after the success of the JFK hit, knew the American public could be had. That's what is so troubling about it. Lies upon deceptions upon misinformation.

I know you want the--excuse the pun--"smoking gun," but until somebody cracks outright, you're going to have to look at the evidence and decide for yourself. Hawk and I have provided a lot of evidence here, but if you read one of the books we suggested, watch The Men Who Killed Kennedy the next time it's on The History Channel or even just go rent JFK maybe you'll start re-thinking what happened.

JFK pretty much sums it up but Stone invented a lot of characters and scenes in the film and made some wilder accusations which caused a lot of people to dismiss it.
However, that's pretty much the whole story right there.

Trust me, my man: neither JFK, MLK nor RFK were assassinated by lone nuts.

[Ronin]

Tony:

I don't want to get into this with you too deeply, because it's obvious you know your stuff and believe it very strongly. I don't wanna piss you off. You scare me.

Suffice it to say, I have studied International Relations intensively (B.A., 1996), and I think I have a pretty good idea of the way the world works. I have seen nothing in my research to corroborate the kinds of accusations you guys are making. That either means that the evidence doesn't exist, or, more chillingly, that is has been covered up extremely well.

I could believe that, except that we now know a lot of things about the Cold War era that we never knew before. I'm a little rusty on specifics, but a lot of CIA double-dealing and details about the Cuban Missile Crisis (nearly got nuked man!) are now available to us that were previously "classified". The CIA pulled off some scary stuff, but whacking the president? I simply don't believe they could have pulled it off and got away with it. That's the key. If they did, it will come out eventually, so I don't lose a lot of sleep over it. It all happened before I was born anyway. History always triumphs in the end.

As far as "books" go, like the article about the ATF, you have to look at the motives of the authors. Books are written to sell.

BTW, I didn't say I believed the "lone gunman" theory per se', but this CIA/Mafia stuff is hard for me to swallow. Sorry.

Keep trying!

[Tony10]

Hell, I don't care if you believe it--it'll come out sooner or later. So I'm not worried about it. I know what Hawk and I say is true. So I'm in no mad race to convince the world; it's more like a waiting game. You just hope that the whole thing cracks open in your lifetime.

And you gotta ask yourself with regard to Hawk, here's a longtime law enforcement guy from Texas--where JFK died--who's obviously a patriotic American (and not some shady character like me) telling you this!

RE: books, yes they're written "to sell" a lot of the time. However, one book in particular is called On the Trail of Assassins, written by Jim Garrison. Jim, you may recall, is the New Orleans prosecutor who more or less stirred up the whole thing with his trial of Clay Shaw. To date, he is the only person to have brought somebody to trial with regard to the JFK killing.

I think it's fair to say that Jim's intentions as an author are good. BTW, his book along with one other were the basis for Stone's movie, and Costner played him in the film. Also, he cameos in the film as Chief Justice Earl Warren.

Now, that's irony!

P.S. By the way, the congressional inquiry that took place more recently, re-examining the JFK murder, concluded that there was "most likely" a conspiracy.

[Edited by Tony10 on 11-02-2000 at 11:54 AM]

[BoarSpear]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4582488.stm

JFK assassination 'was Cuba plot'

Kennedy's assassination was a defining moment in US history
A new documentary exploring the death of John F Kennedy claims his assassin was directed and paid by Cuba.

Rendezvous with Death, based on new evidence from Cuban, Russian and US sources, took three years to research.

One source, ex-Cuban agent Oscar Marino, said Havana had exploited Lee Harvey Oswald, who was arrested but shot dead before he could be tried.

Conspiracy theories on the killing have variously accused Cuba, Russia and the US of acting alone or jointly.

According to Oscar Marino, the Cubans wanted Kennedy dead because he opposed the revolution and allegedly sought to have its leader Fidel Castro killed.

Mr Marino told film director Wilfried Huismann that he knew for certain the assassination was an operation run by the Cuban secret service G2, but he declined to say whether it had been ordered by Mr Castro.


I realised that I was used. I felt ashamed. We missed a moment in history.
Laurence Keenan
Former FBI agent

Cuban intelligence made contact with Oswald after being alerted by the Russian KGB in 1962 when he returned to the USA after living in the Soviet Union for three years, Cuban and Russian sources say.

"He [Oswald] was so full of hate, he had the idea. We used him," Mr Marino said.

A possible Cuban connection was investigated by the US immediately after Kennedy's death.

But an FBI officer sent to follow the Oswald's trail during a visit to Mexico was recalled after only three days and the investigation called off.

Laurence Keenan, now 81, said it was "perhaps the worst investigation the FBI was ever involved in".

"I realised that I was used. I felt ashamed. We missed a moment in history," Mr Keenan said.

Lee Harvey Oswald
Oswald, an ex-Marine, was a Communist sympathiser

Veteran US official Alexander Haig told the film-maker that Kennedy's successor, Lyndon B Johnson, believed Cuba was to blame and feared a pronounced swing to the right if the truth were known that would keep the Democrats out of power for a long time.

According to Mr Haig - a US military adviser at the time and later a secretary of state - "he [Johnson] said 'we must simply not allow the American people to believe Fidel Castro could have killed our president'.

"He [Johnson] was convinced Castro killed Kennedy and he took it to his grave."

Communist sharpshooter

John F Kennedy, the 35th US president, was assassinated as his motorcade drove through Dallas in November 1963.

Lee Harvey Oswald, an ex-Marine sharpshooter who worked in a book warehouse overlooking the assassination, was arrested but killed shortly afterwards.

He had a Russian wife, called himself a Communist and agitated on behalf of Castro's Cuba.

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