Rorion Gracie is a fraud!!!

[jukado1]

count dante

sorry to interupt a good waste of space, but as far as john keenen (count dante) in his era he was a better then average karate man, but what made him stand out was the fact he was one of the first to say that the karate that was being taught was not the be all end all in fighting. there were meny karate instructors teaching katas, and walking up and down the floor doing high block, reverse punch , or standing in a horse stance doing triditional blocks saying that was all that was needed to win a street fight, keenen advacated using dirty fighting, and trying to cheat when others were pushing katas as the secert in fighting.

[spiderchoke]

Hey guys I really like the count.................
Almost as much as grover.


"One, Two, Three, marvelous sheep. Four, Five, Six, wonderful sheep................I love counting."

...........The Count


P.S.
I had no idea he was such a bad A$$.

"Everday spent training is one day closer to learning something.:
...........Spiderchoke

[El Luchador]

This is a Bad Joke

Originally posted by Szczepankiewicz

No, seriously, read this article and you will see that Rorion Gracie and the whole Gracie Clan, AND Bruce Lee are nothing but a bunch of frauds who copied this guy!

http://www.countdante.com/countdante.html

This is THE original!!!



(I saw it on the internet, it MUST be true)

I hope U are Joking LoL

[El Luchador]

I'll Give $50 Bucks for a copy, Put up or Shut Up.

Originally posted by NINJAJOE
True the whole bunch of Gracies and Machasdos are a joke. Emin Boztepe from Wing Tsun went round the Gracie HQ in Los Angeles and beat up Rickson Gracie and offered to take on anyone else there, after he wiped the floor with Rickson, everyone else declined. Incidentally, the fight did not go to the ground and Rickson was knocked out cold from Emin's power. This was filmed using a camcorder I have a copy, the quality is good enough to clearly see it is Rickson getting the beating if his life, and the even filmed the outside of their HQ and going in to make sure noone could disbelieve it.
This was after a long feud between the Gracie's and Boztepe, a war of words if you like. Now it is settled, after the beating the Gracie clan asked Emin not to tell anyone Rickson was defeated for fear of losing their reputation.

Anyway, it's on tape and beyond dispute.

Compared to WT, Brazilian Ju-Jitsu is an all round joke! Good for NHB competition obviously, but quite useless in the street or against a real fighter like Emin Boztepe.

If This is a Joke U are afunny Guy=-)
If it's not Than U are siting on a Gold Mine
Good Thing i bought a new pair of boots
The $hiit is getting High.

[jules]

let's see this so called tape

[crazyjoe380]

Gen speaking,

I think that gracies lost the titles.. the dragon has been defeated.. but..
if it wasn't for them, none of this would be possible. They are the reason why you are fighting events in the manner you are. Jiu Jitsu is a must in tool box and if you don't know it then you're f..ucked.

Example: Vanderlie Silva.. Purple Belt in jiu jitu slash Muay Thai fighter..
if he didn't know BJJ he wouldn't be champ. Besides his brute style and his heart. Jiu Jitsu is a basic.. People want to discredit Royce Gracie. Think about it. In that time, it's not Royce's fault that nobody knew grappling. If you know Mixed Martial Art s historty, There was Shooto fighting. In the U.S. grapping wasn't an issue until Gracie hit the scene. At the same time Rickson was putting it down in Japan. They put this on the map, and for that I will always respect them and the art.

Wrestling was a grappling style but it was more control, (Gracie vs Servern .. Gracie vs ken Shammrock) Mistakes were made but corrected only because it's a sport. The point is they lost the first time and it proves that Bjj is the shit.

Example 2: Renzo Gracie vs Dan Henderson

He knocked out Renzo but yet Vanderlie ****ed him up. It's just the twist of the game. The GRACIES are the masters of this shit, but the student always better. We are the students. We are the subjects. We are the ones takes this to other relms.. lets not hate the creaters..

[Toudiyama[NL]]

Ninjajoe sound like the SCO of Martial Arts, claiming to have proof but not showing it

As for the Count, he sounds like a guy who couln't control his punches losing his matches because of it and then claim to do it on purpose and step out of the normal circuit on his own( other than the guys who started full contact karate, who co-operated)

CrazyJoe:
Only thing one can say against the Gracie'concerning UFC is that they had 60 years of experience in this game
Doesn't take anything away from BJJ that they now lose some matches, that inevitable and will happen to any art

The invluence on MMA is big but even karate has indirect invluence on that
Without karate no full contact karate, no kickboxing, no MT, no MMA as we know it
Alll changes, not in the least the rules, in the first UFC, groin strikes and hair pulling was allowed ( why wasn't biting then?)
And no timelimit, now MMA has become a sport in itslef and has become more regulated but cleaner As a result the game itself has changed and others will win

[kh_s]

holy crap, I'd sooner get my hair pulled other than getting hit on my groins.

[jules]

Without karate no full contact karate, no kickboxing, no MT, no MMA as we know it

What the Heck does Karate have to do with MT? MT matches have been around in Thailand before Karate was ever introduced.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

Originally posted by jules


What the Heck does Karate have to do with MT? MT matches have been around in Thailand before Karate was ever introduced.

Wanted to add some info but forgot

In Thailand they were doing thaiboxing for centuries but no-one did in any other country, it gained popularity through western fighters ( Dutch fighter being the most prominent at that time)
And in that sense no MT without Kickboxing, no kickboxing without full contact karate and no FC without karate
Not the arts developed but the people moved on, either by adapting what they knew are looking for something else but alway working from a base

Do not underestimate the invluence of Karate and Kung fu have had on the popularity of Martial Arts in general

[jules]

So i gues we all owe it to you karate guys :{

[jules]

Actually i take it back. It would have happened sooner or later. And perhaps it would have been a better thing for MT to be introduced first.. With all those Mc Dojos going around that is.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

Originally posted by jules
Actually i take it back. It would have happened sooner or later. And perhaps it would have been a better thing for MT to be introduced first.. With all those Mc Dojos going around that is.

Maybe after the Thai war
Karate became popular after sevicemen came into contact with it on Okinawa when they were stationed there

Maybe it would have happened sooner or later but I think it wouldn't have happened yet

IF MT would have gone the way Karate and TKD ( I personally think there are more TKD MCDojangs) there would be McGyms too
Money has created McDojo's not the arts, that's why the majority of McDojo's are in the US and you rarely see McDojo's in Europe
We have an awfull lot of sparetime/freetime Teachers, with that I do not mean they aren't capable, on the contrary, they are trained and passed the exams, but just have a daytimejob to earn a living

It's a bit like With Microsoft, we don't like them but without it we wouldn't all be computing would we, less then a tenth of the people using a computer today, would be using it if there wasn't Windows but only Linux

Of coarse people would still be doing Martial Arts but way less

PS you don't own "us" Karateguys, because most of the people responsible have retired anyway

Without Gracie families, there wouldn't have been UFC, there would have been MMA though because they were already heading that way in Japan
Without the gracies MMA wouldn't have been as popular though

[jules]

So what do you want? A handshake and a plaque? What is your point? That all other styles should thank you Karate guys? For what? For your styles's homeland being conquered by the US first?

[Ghost]

Yeah i dont get your point either. From what i can make out you are saying we we would not be doing MT if Martial Arts Like Karate had not become popular in the West.

So basically what you are saying is that we saw Karate and it looked interesting. We did it and thought it was good and developed Kick Boxing.

Then we fought the Thais at Thai Boxing.
So how did you say we Knew the Thais had Muay Thai.

I dont see the link.
Why would we suddenly go to Thailand and challenge them with our kickboxers?

How does the popularity of Karate let us know about MT?

Oh sorry i get it.

We realised Karate sucked SOOOOOO bad that we asked any country we could think of if they had anything better.

Most of the Eastern Hemisphere replied and....indeed they were correct, their systems were better and so we went from country testing out their systems.

And then one day the idiot kick boxer from the west knelt before the lord and said "Oh great one, which is the best system of all"

To which the holy one replied "If you have to ask you'll never know"