Question? Why mixed Martial Arts????????

[jmd161]

I'm just intrested why MMA is so popular?

Is it because you learn so much about different techniques?

Don't feel that one style has enough to handle the different types of fighters on the street?

What is it?

This is not a diss to MMA's i'm just curious and would like to hear different ideas about why you chose MMA's.

I myself study one style Black Tiger ,but Black Tiger has many styles of kung fu within it.Like wing chun,choy lay fut,hung gar,tai shing pek kwar(monkey),eagle claw,8 drunken immortals,etc.......
I'ts a mixture of northern and southern shaolin fighting systems.

So in a way i guess Black Tiger is a MMA?

jmd161

[Mr. Miyagi]

If you're posting on this forum then you've obviously seen the early UFC's. Basically, a bunch of brawlers and strikers getting destroyed by bjj artists and wrestlers. No matter how a good a striker someone was or how successful they were in boxing-kickboxing-point sparring competitions, they got taken down and pounded by wrestlers and submitted by bjj artists. Some of the strikers learned to sprawl to avoid takedowns and also defend themselves on the ground if they were taken down.

Since you do gung fu, you might be interested in Jason DeLucia's story. He was very advanced and had trained in kung fu for years when he heard about the "Gracie Challenge". He went to the Gracie Academy and accepted a fight with Royce. Supposedly, he was so confident of victory that he offered them a stake if he lost; he just didn't think there was any way Royce would beat him. The Gracies turned down the stake and Royce destroyed him.

He purchased some of the Gracie tapes and studied them; then he entered UFC II thinking that with what he now knew he could take Royce Gracie. He actually took him down this time, but he was immedietely swept and mounted. He tried to bench press Gracie off and got armbarred.

He then started training MMA and entered Pancrase, where he bacame a very respectable and successful fighter.

The point is that kung fu, karate, and tkd basically get laughed at by practitioners of bjj, wrestlers, MMA fighters, and even thai boxers.

[jmd161]

That's very sad if you feel that you have nothing to fear from those styles.

Originally posted by Mr. Miyagi
The point is that kung fu, karate, and tkd basically get laughed at by practitioners of bjj, wrestlers, MMA fighters, and even thai boxers.

Mr. Miyagi,

I don't try to disrespect anyone or anystyle ,but if you feel that way i hope you never meet a person from anyone of those styles that have learned to use their techniques.

I've had Bjj people that have said the samething to me that you just said.Problem is most have gone up against sport karate and Wu Shu artist.I have a guy at my job that always talked about Gracie this Gracie That and his style of Gracie Bjj that he studies.That he has beaten so many of us strikers.well i don't challange people i was taught not to ,but thought a friendly sparring match would be nice.

Before i get to the match i would like to say this.I respect the Gracies very much my favorite is Rickson i think he's better than Royce by a mile.I also see holes in their armour.

If Bjj was unbeatable would'nt the whole world do it?
" Really "?? think about that for a minute.

When i see these so called strikers going against Bjj i laugh myself.Because i would never attack a grappler that way.I would let you come at me for your takedown and show you what a deep rooted stance would do to your chest.Or show you that every lock has a counter ,but if you know Bjj you should know this already

Anyway this guy attacked me trying to pull guard on me that was funny because i thought that was the last thing he would try to do.I simply steped in with a deep Bow and Arrow stance and watched him cry in pain as me knee struck his chest in a style he has obviously never seen.After about two days he wanted to try again i asked are you sure he said yes.He came at me again thinking i would use the technique." WRONG "

I took his movement side steped him and applied my own Chin Na submitting technique.

His Response A Very Quick Tap Out

Moral of this post.

You underestimate any style or person in a fight and you might not get a second chance at them.If you choose to feel that way about kung fu great.just don't fool yourself thinking you could never loose to someone from those styles.

That's what the japanese soldiers thought when they saw monks with staffs only to be defeated very soundly.

jmd161

[Mr. Miyagi]

I wasn't disrespecting anyone, was just letting you know what the MMA world thinks. It's interesting to hear your viewpoint, but what is someone like you doing on an MMA-BJJ forum if kung fu is your passion?

I will disrespect your friend though; he must be a newbie who thinks he's ready to take on the world after a couple bjj classes. I do recommend that you go to a bjj school and try it and see how you like it.

If you are at one of the few good kung fu schools you are fortunate because I know so many schools that are no good.

[Brokenmace]

I never understood why folks have such a bug in their ass about BJJ. It's good, but the Gracies aren't gods, and neither is their art godlike. Do you want to go to the ground with a bunch of broken glass and shredded metal? How about in a narrow and sloped passage? Or in thick woods with knarled roots and needles?

The ground isn't the only answer, nor always the best. Sometimes it can get you killed by itself.

If you don't understand striking on the street, or what to do about a knife or a broken bottle, you could be a dead man. All your BJJ tricks won't save you when he crushes your nuts and tears out your throat.

This style this, this style that. It's pointless. Hasn't anyone learned? It's not the art, it just looks like that in an octagon/matt/ring. That's all bullshyte. These arts weren't designed for rings (with the exception of Judo, to some extent).

For Eagle Claw, say, to be truly effective, you couldn't limit its techniques to ring-legal BS. Just roll with one of them on the street and see what happens.

That's why we have mixed martial arts. MMA isn't BJJ. BJJ is just a part of the scene.

[jmd161]

No i did'nt mean you.

Mr. Miyagi,

Although it seemed that way i did'nt mean you.

No actually the guy knows his stuff.He just did'nt respect kung fu.

We have a Gracie Bjj here on Miami Beach i plan to go and get to know someone there.I don't wanna learn Bjj because i study the system of Chin Na.If you study Bjj i don't think you would crosstrain in ju jitsu? bjj and the system of Chin Na are about the same.

It's interesting to hear your viewpoint, but what is someone like you doing on an MMA-BJJ forum if kung fu is your passion?

I like to talk Martial Arts period.
plus i wanna get to know some MMA and Bjj people.Maybe someone here is in my area and we can work out together.I can train against an experienced grappler with my striking techniques.And they can train against an experienced striker with their grappling techniques.I think it would help both of us greatly.

If all a striker spars against is another striker your China Na never gets trully tested.I feel the same for a true grappler how do you know it works for you if you've never fought an advanced striker?Just because Rickson or Royce kicked someones a$$ with it does'nt mean it works for everyone.

jmd161

[Mr. Miyagi]

I didn't say that bjj is the end-all, but real MMA training is invaluable in self defense because it covers all ways of fighting. Not to mention that if you do ever strike someone a lethal blow you will soon find yourself subject to a lawsuit.
I don't walk around in areas that have broken glass and shredded metal and am tired of hearing about it; I don't see it on the street (occasionally a small piece of glass but not like that scene from Die Hard) and the bars I've been to all have clean floors, save some peanut shells sometimes. I've been taken down on the street several times and never been hurt.
I have to also question the qualifications of a bjj artist who would immedietely pull guard on a stiking opponent without attempting to take him down first.

[crazyjoe380]

Jason DeLucia

kung fu but he's also other styles.. not a good example to use him.



Win Trent Jenkins Submission (Rear Naked Choke) UFC 1 - The Beginning 11-12-1993 No No
Win Scott Baker Submission (Strikes) UFC 2 - No Way Out 3-11-1994 No No
Loss Royce Gracie Submission (Armlock) UFC 2 - No Way Out 3-11-1994 Yes No
Win Masakatsu Funaki Submission (Kneebar) Pancrase - Road To The Championship 2 7-6-1994 No No
Loss Takaku Fuke Submission Pancrase - Road To The Championship 3 7-26-1994 No No
Win Matt Hume Decision (Lost Points) Pancrase - Road To The Championship 4 9-1-1994 No No
Loss Bas Rutten Submission (Guillotine Choke) Pancrase - Road To The Championship 5 10-15-1994 No No
Win Thomas Puckett KO Pancrase - King of Pancrase Tournament, Round 1 12-16-1994 No No
Loss Minoru Suzuki Submission Pancrase - King of Pancrase Tournament, Round 1 12-16-1994 No No
Loss Masakatsu Funaki Submission Pancrase - Eyes Of Beast 1 1-26-1995 No Yes
Win Manabu Yamada TKO (Referee's Stoppage) Pancrase - Eyes Of Beast 2 3-10-1995 No Yes
Win John Renfroe Submission Pancrase - Eyes Of Beast 3 4-8-1995 No No
Loss Manabu Yamada Submission (Heelhook) Pancrase - Eyes Of Beast 4 5-13-1995 No No
Loss Bas Rutten Submission Pancrase - Eyes Of Beast 5 6-13-1995 No No
Loss Minoru Suzuki Submission (Guillotine Choke) Pancrase - 1995 Neo-Blood Tournament, Round 1 7-22-1995 No Yes
Win Ryushi Yanagisawa Submission Pancrase - 1995 Anniversary Show 9-1-1995 No No
Win Takaku Fuke Decision (Lost Points) Pancrase - Eyes Of Beast 6 11-4-1995 No No
Win Takafumi Ito Submission Pancrase - Eyes Of Beast 7 12-14-1995 Yes No
Win Katsuomi Inagaki Submission (Choke) Pancrase - Truth 1 1-28-1996 No No
Win Yoshiki Takahashi KO Pancrase - Truth 2 3-2-1996 No No
Win Kiuma Kinioku Decision (Lost Points) Pancrase - Truth 4 4-8-1996 No No
Win Osami Shibuya Decision (Lost Points) Pancrase - Truth 5 5-16-1996 No No
Loss Bas Rutten TKO (Referee's Stoppage) Pancrase - Truth 6 6-25-1996 No No
Win Minoru Suzuki KO (Palm Strike) Pancrase - 1996 Anniversary Show 9-7-1996 No No
Win Yuki Kondo Decision (Lost Points) Pancrase - Truth 7 10-8-1996 No No
Win Osami Shibuya Submission Pancrase - Truth 9 11-9-1996 No No
Loss Masakatsu Funaki TKO Pancrase - Truth 10 12-15-1996 No No
Win Takafumi Ito Submission Pancrase - Alive 4 4-27-1997 No No
Win Yoshiki Takahashi Submission (Armbar) Pancrase - Alive 5 5-24-1997 No No
Win Kiuma Kinioku TKO (Cut) Pancrase - Alive 6 6-18-1997 No No
Loss Yuki Kondo Submission (Toe Hold) Pancrase - 1997 Anniversary Show 9-6-1997 No No
Win Ikuhisa Minowa Submission (Choke) Pancrase - Alive 11 12-20-1997 No No
Win Takafumi Ito Decision (Lost Points) Pancrase - Advance 1 1-16-1998 No Yes
Win Satoshi Hasegawa TKO (Doctor's Stoppage) Pancrase - Advance 3 3-1-1998 No No
Loss Ryushi Yanagisawa Submission (Toe Hold) Pancrase - Advance 5 4-26-1998 No No
Win Satoshi Hasegawa TKO (Armlock) Pancrase - Advance 7 6-2-1998 Yes No
Win Satoshi Hasegawa Decision (2-0) Pancrase - 1998 Anniversary Show 9-14-1998 No No
Loss Kei Yamamiya Decision (Lost Points) Pancrase - Advance 10 10-26-1998 No No
Win Manabu Yamada Submission (Armbar) Pancrase - Advance 12 12-19-1998 No No
Win Kiuma Kinioku Decision (Lost Points) Pancrase - Breakthrough 1 1-19-1999 No No
Win Ryushi Yanagisawa Decision (2-0) Pancrase - Breakthrough 5 5-23-1999 No No
Win Ikuhisa Minowa Decision (3-0) Pancrase - Breakthrough 6 6-11-1999 No No
Win Chris Lytle Decision (2-0) Pancrase - Breakthrough 7 7-6-1999 No No
Win Manabu Yamada Decision (3-0) Pancrase - 1999 Neo-Blood Tournament, Round 2 8-2-1999 No No
Loss Joe Slick TKO (Injury) UFC 23 - Ultimate Japan 2 11-19-1999 Yes No
Loss Bob Stines TKO (Strikes) Pancrase - Trans 3 4-30-2000 No No
Loss Omar Bouiche Submission (Armbar) Pancrase - Trans 4 6-26-2000 No No
Win Takaichi Hirayama Decision (3-0) Pancrase - Trans 6 10-31-2000 No No
Draw Katsuhisa Fujii Draw Pancrase - Trans 7 12-4-2000 No No
Loss Daisuke Ishii Decision (3-0) Pancrase - Proof 4 6-26-2001 No No
Loss Yuki Sasaki Submission (Armbar) Pancrase - 2001 Neo-Blood Tournament, Round 1 7-29-2001 No No
Loss Katsuhisa Fujii TKO (Knee Injury) Pancrase - 2001 Anniversary Show

[mike]

I never understood why folks have such a bug in their ass about BJJ. It's good, but the Gracies aren't gods, and neither is their art godlike. Do you want to go to the ground with a bunch of broken glass and shredded metal? How about in a narrow and sloped passage? Or in thick woods with knarled roots and needles?

Brokenmace:

I think people have a bug in there ass about BJJ because a few years ago it was unheard of and when the Gracies stomped much ass with it, BJJ was heralded as the greatest thing since sliced bread. However now anyone interested in MMA fighting studies both ground and standing techniques so they are able to defend themselves in any occasion. And lets face it, its harder to keep a wrestler/BJJ guy standing than it is to take down a striker. And please keep in mind that I am not faulting striking arts, its just a question of gravity

Mike

[jmd161]

I disagree with that totaly

Originally posted by mike
And lets face it, its harder to keep a wrestler/BJJ guy standing than it is to take down a striker. And please keep in mind that I am not faulting striking arts, its just a question of gravity

Mike

I used to wrestle so i know about wrestling yes you wanna take the guy down.I also know about striking and a good striker can keep a grappler from getting him down.Have we seen good strikers in the UFC?

I really don't know from what i've seen the Gracies are very good that does'nt mean the strikers were sorry or were'nt advanced they very well could have been.It could mean one of two things either the Gracies are a lot smarter than their given credit for or the strikers are'nt as smart as they've thought they were.
Maybe both?

I think a lot of strikers live in a false state of mind.That's for all striking arts not just karate and kung fu.You're told what you can do with all these moves you've never used or seen used.They really belive that it will work.Problem is using a move in free air space is not using a move on an opponent hell bent on taking you down.

jmd161

[mike]

this is only my opinion but..


If you have two combatants of equal skill, one favoring ground fighting and the other prefering kicks and punches, I feel that it will be more difficult especially in a ring situation for the striker to make the grappler fight his fight. I.E. it is a lot harder to force some one to stay in range for your various blows than it is for someone to latch on to your clothing/neck and drag you to the ground. I am not trying to say that there are no counters for takedowns, we all know there are plenty.

Mike

[mike]

one more thing

I did not mean to imply that I have anything but respect for the Gracies, they are highly skilled fighters. I was only refering to there early dominace in MMA fighting.

[ceasarx]

Speaking for myself I like training period. I study a classical JuJutsu system that is from what I gathered a mixed martial arts in itself. But I train with a lot of differant types of fighters just to see if they know something that I can keep in my pocket for later use.

As far as Bjj is concerned. I respect there skills on the ground but I have trained with about four off them and they all lack a sense of spirituality and respect for traditions and dojo ettiquette

[jmd161]

That's where a good striker shows he's a good striker.

Mike,

A good striker is not going to wait for opening to attack a grappler.He is going to create his own.Just like a good grappler is not going to wait for a striker to sit back and take him appart.I'm not trying to brag ,but i doubt anyone can take me down inclose by grabing my clothing.I know too many quick counters and i've used them.As anyone in grappling knows at the first touch you have to react if you're a second late it's just about over for you.Once a good grappler has a hold of you you're pretty much screwed.

At that first touch you have to counter the movement i know how to break a lot of locks because for yrs that's all i worked on.I never wanted to be at anyone's mercy in a fight.I've seen it happen and it's not pretty unless you count it as being pretty F'd up.

jmd161

[Szczepankiewicz]

I'm not trying to brag ,but i doubt anyone can take me down inclose

I'll have to call BS JMD161, You're just trying to start shite and you know it!

SZ