funny stuff

[jesse7]

Me and my brother started my new style at the same time ... hes like 4 gradings above me. His grade must be shit because he cant possibly be higher than me in teh same amount of time .. oh wait .. yes he can .. he trains 4 nights a week I only train two nights a week (in this style). GET REAL EIDUFSd8usn (sp).

Jess

[robertlee]

whoa this is going no where fast I agree with many of you on the time requirement on rank BUT joe Leiwis did make shodan in what six eight months in okinawa I know this doesnt compare But hey things can happen I know of a person that went from Shodan to san dan in 5 months upset me good talked to the instructor he said the person had the time requirement in He did not had one year active four inactive and sevan months return time in needless to say this person is not evan a good color belt yet but his instructor was the one who will have to bare that burden This 3rd dan may or may not deserve his rank HE knows if he does All I know is the longer you have had a blackbelt the more you know its just a belt But what you can do is what you can do thats what matters I could not change the instructors mind of his students as you can not change this you worked hard to get where your at dont waste it to argue time takes care of all things .. just trying to sllow things down took my years of sweat and bumps too ..

[Einherjar]

Haw haw haw haw... this is REALLY funny. And the longer the thread gets, the funnier it becomes.

[jonhutton]

rank and time

I am just dissapointed at the lack of that mystical inner confidence, inner peace, and tranquility that ein.... has expressed so far. I think that because it was that way in the past in diff. more traditional styles doesn't mean the same system apply to all the newer styles of today. It seems like a waste of time to spend so much effort on this matter but it also seems wrong to let people on this forum behave poorly towards others.

[Einherjar]

Awwwww.... how sweet....

Love & peace...

[Szczepankiewicz]

To tell the truth this subject has been bothering me since 3BB first posted it.

I have discussed it with my sensei and here are the conclusions that I arrived at:

1) Rank is an agreement between the student and the teacher. The teacher sometimes promotes people who don't believe they are of a certain rank, and certainly promotes people whom OTHERS don't believe deserve the rank. However, the rank means little outside of the relationship between the student and the school.

2) How fast you make rank depends on the curriculum you study. TKD promotes black belts in two years. If they can pass each test, and there aren't any predetermined time requirements, then they get promoted quickly.

3) A black belt in one discipline is not a black belt in all disciplines. For a lot of people (Especially the BJJ folks) a blue belt in gracie JJ is worth more than any other black belt.

4) Traditionally in history, children were considered adults when they hit puberty. They were expected to work and provide for themselves, seek out a mate, and start a family. This tradition held true well into the 20th century, and still holds true today for many parts of the world. If one could bare and raise children, and provide for a family, they why can't they be considered a master of the basics in a martial art? Would a man have to have more than three children before he is respected as a 'real' father?

5) The curriculum I study, calculated out, if my son starts at age 5, he can be a black belt as early as age 12. He can achieve his menkyo by age 15. My son (age 11 months) is already starting to learn some of the most basic techniques, he doesn't realize this of course, but I do.

6) As it regards to our new friend 3BB, he hasn't made any claims to grandiose knowledge. He appears to be a humble and an individual embodiment of what it is to be a martial artist: one who continues to seek knowledge.

For what it's worth, you have my respect.

Szczepankiewicz

[Guest]

16 year old Black Belt?

I like the way the British Judo Association runs things.

For kids under 16 they have a "mon" system, and people over 16 get awarded "kyu" grades. There are 18 mon grades, and no kid under 16 is even eligible for Black Belt.

My own eldest kid (10 years old) has been training for 3 years and is still ony at 4th mon. But the Judo grades keep their credibility, and a Black Belt really has to be earned. But only when you are 16.

I have real problems with a 16 year old 3rd Dan. If you can progress to that level whilst not fully developed (physicvally and mentally) then the system is too easy. The "level" is too low.

No offence, but the sight of young kids trotting around with Black Belts is indicative of the sad state Martial Arts got themselves in. Thank God for BJJ, who are putting credibility back into the Martial Arts.

Come on. A Black Belt should be someone way ahead of the rest of the population. Someone who can look after himself with just about anyone. And not just some hard working and well meaning kid.

[Szczepankiewicz]

Re: 16 year old Black Belt?

Originally posted by Bri Thai

Come on. A Black Belt should be someone way ahead of the rest of the population. Someone who can look after himself with just about anyone. And not just some hard working and well meaning kid.

We can probably site many, many adults who are 3rd dan or higher who do not meet the criteria of "Someone who can look after himself with just about anyone."

[jesse7]

Im with SZ .. I agree mostly that diferent belts are easier to get in diferent styles.

In my style (street karate) you can grade for a belt every 3 months. And there is 5 belts then brown 3 tips which has a 6 month standdown before black belt. So thats close to two years to gain your black belt. Some gain it faster because they can double grade or some even tripple .. as you can train 7 days a week if you like where as most students only train 2-3 times a week. Allowing of double/tripple grading is pretty rare and is upto your instructor.

These are the requirements to gain a black belt.

70 push ups on knuckles,
20 push ups on two fingers,
150 sit ups/crunches,
100 squats,
2.4 kilometre run (10.3 mins)
The applicant must hold a current First Aid Certificate

12-14 kata and other crap. A bunch of self defence techniques both sitting and standing. Free sparing two oponients at once for 5 minutes. Plus a bunch of other simple stuff (breaking etc).

We have a 16 year old black belt (almost 17) and he kicks arse and he did all of the above to earn it. In my style black belt is really where the serious training starts. Each dan after that takes minimum 2 years period .. no exceptions. (although first maybe 1.5 I forget).

Anyways shows how diferent it is for every style.

Jess

[robertlee]

Not to argue When I began the M/a Karete first it took 3 years to test for shodan if you were ready 2 more years to test for ni dan and 2 more to test for san dan But yes some arts and with the change people are testing sooner used to be under 16 was junior blackbelt then a retest at 16 I have seen some good young blackbelts and some not depends on stlye and instruction and how well one learned I dont award any belts at all any more just levels If it takes one person six months for the first test it does another may be ready in three one may take a year that is up to the time and skill of the student minimum to the eqlivment of black is about two years But a belt shows only rank to demenstrat it is knowledge some people work harder than othersBut at you school the rank is what you will except knowledge will have to be expressed then you may judge Might just be easyer for 3rd degree blackbelt to change his profile name a little and let him in the door He may be young but he seems to want to learn and share time tales all

[Suzuki_Fanboy]

1) I'm not changing my name. I'm proud of my rank.

2) There are these things in the English language called "Periods". No offense, but your last post was one big run-on sentence and I had to read it like 5 times to understand it. Use periods, man.

3) I still don't care what this guy thinks. I think there are more people who would disagree with him than agree, and I also think people might be making too big of a deal out of this...seriously. I mean, it doesn't affect any of you at all, so why get all bitchy about it? (#3 is directed to Einhardar [sp?])

EDIT:

4) I haven't even been rude about my rank. I haven't acted like I'm better than any of you, because I know that might not be the case. I havent' been cocky or anything, so just let it go.

[robertlee]

Thought I was giveing you the benifit of doupt.. You can handle it, fine handle it. You may be proud of your rank. But the world does not need to be reminded of it . I was a blackbelt befor you were born . I put mine in the closet. I would rather have someone think I know nothing, then flaunt my rank. You probably have not been rude But A blackbelt dosent make the person. And thats the point to be made . You may have worked hard for it, but put it up for awhile. Then you will see there is much more to learn. Be as proud as you must. But remmber there are many people that has worked too. Yes its time to let go. you are hanging in here that says something. You will learn more if you never put knowledge around your waist .

[magic]

In many styles, students under 16 can only be awarded a probationary black belt or are kept at the the rank immediately before black belt. The trouble with this is that with kids starting really young in the martial arts, they may lose the feeling of progression if they stay at the same rank for years at a time. A

After all, if you study your MA history, belt ranks are a relatively modern addition to MA, and in most cases added to help show a student's progressive mastery in an extrinsic fashion.

I do agree, however, that many kids (under 16) are not ready to be black belts, but not because of their age. Many adults are not ready either. My school has several kids who are slack and technically-lacking. I think my instructors promoted a few too many when they first started the school, based on the time they had been training. Now they have made the requirements for all gradings much stricter, and have even demoted some students . . .

I think the real problem here (aside from disrespecting people without actually knowing them and their situation) is that any grading system that is too arbitrary will produce more problems than it solves. A good grading system is competency-based, with amount of time spent training between gradings just one of the criteria.

Apologies for the long-winded post.

[Einherjar]

My own eldest kid (10 years old) has been training for 3 years and is still ony at 4th mon. But the Judo grades keep their credibility, and a Black Belt really has to be earned. But only when you are 16.

Training hard and progressing slowly is not a popular thing nowadays, but that's the way some things have to be done. Most McDojos practicioners just want their third dan black belts as soon as possible, no matter how absurd the whole situation is. Owning a paper that says you are a black belt don't necessarily mean that you either earned it or deserved it.

The way your son trains is far better. He is being taught patience, correct posturing, proper form, good technique and, eventually, he will be rewarded with a real and deserved black belt.

I have real problems with a 16 year old 3rd Dan. If you can progress to that level whilst not fully developed (physicvally and mentally) then the system is too easy. The "level" is too low.

Man, you are just jealous of his supernatural skill (haw haw haw haw haw...).

No offence, but the sight of young kids trotting around with Black Belts is indicative of the sad state Martial Arts got themselves in.

Very, very, very sad indeed.

Thank God for BJJ, who are putting credibility back into the Martial Arts.

Amen to that.

[Einherjar]

I'm not changing my name.

Nobody told you to change anything. Victimism is a subtle art, you know, and it takes a little practice to make it work. Keep on trying.

I'm proud of my rank.

You should. Spending so much money to get a paper which says you're a third dan black belt is something to be proud of (being wealthy is a good thing, isn't it?).

I think there are more people who would disagree with him than agree

That's what I call a strong opinion! So if people suddenly start eating garbage you are going to eat it as well, right?

Haw haw haw haw...