Martial Arts and Religion

[midnight]

I know I am going to be bashed by all, is anyone here a Christian and does it have any impact on how you see your matail art, or if you run a school does it have any impact on how you run your school and teach your students?

[jesse7]

Why would being christian make any diference? Ask yourself that right now. The only problem I could see would be if person teaching was Christian and they did things like preach etc in class. (if you know what I mean). This is not the place for this .. thats what church is for.

Unless the club is specifically its own club called something like. Christian Mixxed Martial Arts. Or something like that .. then thats fine .

[midnight]

the reason i asked

The reason I asked is because of the court case recently about where the Judo guys went to court because they had to bow. I am a Christain and cant see anything wrong with the bowing ect.I would just like to know what others think.

[jesse7]

haha .. I gota know more about this. What country is this in?

Do you have any links to articles etc. I cant think of any possible way to get money out of a dojo for requiring you to bow as part of their tradition. If you dont like it you leave .. its that simple.

Thats almost like when your playing a certian sport and you decide you dont like one of the rules, so you will play the game another way while everyone else plays it the otherway.

I can see you not wanting to bow if it is against your religion in some way .. fine that fine .. you dont get to do martial arts that stick to that one tradition.

Back to the Christian thing. You can more than likely sue if a teacher at a martial arts dojo is preeching during class. But whats the point??? all you have to do is ask the instructor to knock it off (or get your parents too) or go further and complain to the head(s) of the association.


Jess

[Szczepankiewicz]

Most martial arts deal in philosophy. Religion is simply another branch of philosophy, albeit a very important and powerful branch.


The Judo bow isn't part of a religious ceremony is it? I've never thought bowing was anything other than a form of showing respect.


If you come to my house, you follow my rules. If you don't like my rules, simple, don't come to my house.

The First Amendment protects from government establishment of a religion, so even if Judo's bows have religious connotations, what case do these clowns have against anyone? Unless of course it's school based judo... then we have a major issue boiling.


Spanky

[crazyjoe380]

The bible says that those who like violence don't love god..
or seekers of violence are not in gods favor..


martial arts is not practiced by true religious christians.

[Scott Kano]

Hmm when I think about it I dont know anyone that does martial arts that is actually christian.
What crazyjoe said
>>>The bible says that those who like violence don't love god..
or seekers of violence are not in gods favor..


martial arts is not practiced by true religious christians.

Man the bible needs some sorting out, we are trainning to survive

thats all for now cya
Scott

[midnight]

The Judo guys actually sued because they couldn’t partake in a tournament because they refused to bow to the flags, they were both Christians, and sued some federation and won their case.

To answer Joe and Scott I totally disagree read the whole Bible and you will see that God has even helped men in wars, Jesus Himself cleared out the temple with a whip nowhere in the Bible does it state you have to be a wimp to be a Christian. My issue is not with the training and violence but would be with sects and cults in MA.I know many a true Christian in MA including myself

[Walkinpeace]

First of all, whatever you do must not be in conflict with the school owners wishes. We are always to set the example of what a believer in Christ should be. If what we are doing creates a conflict, rather than spreading the Gospel, and the love of God, then all is lost before you begin. My school owner is a Christian so it is a lot easier for me to stand in front of my class and make Biblical statements. I have never had an unbeliever complain, either.
Set an example, walk the walk, and talk the talk, if there is a conflict between the two, people will not listen to you. "What you do screams ever so loudly in my ears, I cannot hear what you say." (Ralph Waldo Emerson) Care about your students with a genuine concern. Ask them how you can be of service to them, "What can I do to help?". People do not care how much you know till they know how much you care. People are loved into the Kingdom of God, not talked into it. Words are important, but they mean nothing without God's love. I Corinthians 13.

When we start our classes, we have a short "meditation" time. I always explain to the students the Biblical form and meaning, "Think about these things, (Selah)," not empty your mind and let anything wander on in. Biblical meditation is to focus on God and the abilities He has bestowed upon you, then develop them to their (and yours) fullest capacities.

I openly talk about my faith when the time is appropriate. Never try to force sharing your faith because you feel insecure. "Well, gee, here it is another week of class and I haven't said anything about the Lord." Indeed you have, if you are letting the example you set before the class speak for itself. Be joyful and enthusiastic about your Martial Arts. People will start asking you how it is you're always so happy. Sounds like a sharing opportunity to me.

Always go the extra mile. I am a second degree black belt at my school, and will shortly earn my black belt in Jujitsu, I still help clean the bathrooms, run the vacuum cleaner, fix broken things around the school. If someone needs help I will try to help, or find someone who can. Remember, when you announce to others that you are a Christian, they are watching.

Students are coming to our schools to learn martial arts, we on the other hand know they need Jesus. Ministry always flows through relationships, get to know your students on a personal level, but always use wisdom in doing so. Pray for them.

If you can, start a Bible study at a time that does not conflict with class time. Teach Bible basics, and open the discussion to those who have questions about God and who Jesus is. Invite people to church with you. If the school owner does not object, put out flyers announcing special events at your church. You will notice most of what I do, and have said here has a lot to do with "being an example, letting your light so shine before men," and not just a "hot blast of Gospel preaching." This is the majority of what and how I share the Gospel with others as an instructor, and a student.

[jesse7]

You gota be shitting me! ... its cool to be open about your religion in class etc .. but oh so not cool to use the meditition time etc to reflect on god, and to push it onto your students. Even though you say you dont push it on them, even just talking about it to a group as a whole while not in church, is the very definition of pushing religion on someone. I mean hey the individual may wish to use the meditation period to reflect on god if they want to (I sometimes do) but the idea doesnt need to be put into their head by their instructor, your coaxing your students into doing so is just wrong. I dont care if you say you dont push it apon the students. DUDE ASK THEM TO COME TO CHURCH, your students dont need you saving them during training, do that in church. Unless your a christian MA Association then this is just wrong.

Do the head's of your Association know what you are doing?

I would like to write to them. .

I see no problems with christians training in martial arts. You dont have to like violence to train in MA. Training to defend yourself doesnt mean you enjoy voilence .

So what if you ahve never had anyone complain? this is just them being polite. You have probably lost alot of students because of your methods. You probably recruite alot of your students through church so you may even have a large following of Christian students, so how do you think this would make the non Christian students feel about standing up to you about your actions.

I dont understand the american Justice system somethings. I cant think of any possible reason the Christians won that court case.

[Leadfoot02]

I honestly don't see where there is an issue with being a Christian and studying a martial art. When it comes to bowing it's for respect not worship so there is no issue there. I just joined a school to study BJJ and love it. It really doesn't matter to me if the people there are Christians or not. I think martial arts is a wonderful thing. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see an issue. I see nothing wrong with wanting to learn techniques to defend yourself, what's violent in that? Nothing. Now if I go take the skills I have learned and start fights then there's the problem but that's not why I am there. I am there to learn skills I can use in the real world, especially for my training as a police officer. Just my 2 cents.

[jesse7]

Originally posted by midnight
The Judo guys actually sued because they couldn’t partake in a tournament because they refused to bow to the flags, they were both Christians, and sued some federation and won their case.

Do you have any links to this particular case? I did a search everywhere and I could only find links saying they lost the case.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/134389830_judo11m.html

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/97/story_9751_1.html

[Scott Kano]

Originally posted by Walkinpeace
First of all, whatever you do must not be in conflict with the school owners wishes. We are always to set the example of what a believer in Christ should be. If what we are doing creates a conflict, rather than spreading the Gospel, and the love of God, then all is lost before you begin. My school owner is a Christian so it is a lot easier for me to stand in front of my class and make Biblical statements. I have never had an unbeliever complain, either.
Set an example, walk the walk, and talk the talk, if there is a conflict between the two, people will not listen to you. "What you do screams ever so loudly in my ears, I cannot hear what you say." (Ralph Waldo Emerson) Care about your students with a genuine concern. Ask them how you can be of service to them, "What can I do to help?". People do not care how much you know till they know how much you care. People are loved into the Kingdom of God, not talked into it. Words are important, but they mean nothing without God's love. I Corinthians 13.

When we start our classes, we have a short "meditation" time. I always explain to the students the Biblical form and meaning, "Think about these things, (Selah)," not empty your mind and let anything wander on in. Biblical meditation is to focus on God and the abilities He has bestowed upon you, then develop them to their (and yours) fullest capacities.

I openly talk about my faith when the time is appropriate. Never try to force sharing your faith because you feel insecure. "Well, gee, here it is another week of class and I haven't said anything about the Lord." Indeed you have, if you are letting the example you set before the class speak for itself. Be joyful and enthusiastic about your Martial Arts. People will start asking you how it is you're always so happy. Sounds like a sharing opportunity to me.

Always go the extra mile. I am a second degree black belt at my school, and will shortly earn my black belt in Jujitsu, I still help clean the bathrooms, run the vacuum cleaner, fix broken things around the school. If someone needs help I will try to help, or find someone who can. Remember, when you announce to others that you are a Christian, they are watching.

Students are coming to our schools to learn martial arts, we on the other hand know they need Jesus. Ministry always flows through relationships, get to know your students on a personal level, but always use wisdom in doing so. Pray for them.

If you can, start a Bible study at a time that does not conflict with class time. Teach Bible basics, and open the discussion to those who have questions about God and who Jesus is. Invite people to church with you. If the school owner does not object, put out flyers announcing special events at your church. You will notice most of what I do, and have said here has a lot to do with "being an example, letting your light so shine before men," and not just a "hot blast of Gospel preaching." This is the majority of what and how I share the Gospel with others as an instructor, and a student.

WTF are you on man. I totally disagree with everything you just said. Seems Like you are trying to convert people to your religion. Man I dont like that because I have people doorknocking all the time saying blah blah and leaving paper behind, I say no but they just keep coming round. What if you get a person coming in wanting to learn MA and not bible studies? Then you got a problem.
Im not bashing your religion or your beliefs I just reckon that religion should be kept away from things like MA, especially if you got a big problem with bowing and that.

thanks for listening
Scott

[ryanhall]

You gota be shitting me! ... its cool to be open about your religion in class etc .. but oh so not cool to use the meditition time etc to reflect on god, and to push it onto your students.

i'm christian and i totally agree with jesse and scott--don't preach. please. it would piss me off even if i agree. if i were in your class, i would write the head of your organization to have your teaching license revoked (unless you bill the class as CHRISTIAN).

just to rant a little: i can't stand the way many people twist the bible to make jesus into an effeminate pushover--he cleared out the temple with a whip, and his followers/apostles carried swords with them--in order to further their pacifistic views. i think wanting/loving peace is great, but pacifism is for misguided fools. i would never fight for a pacifist. it's true that one can use scripture quotes to support almost anything, there is nothing in the bible that argues against defending oneself from unjust injury/death.

this isn't mine, but it's pretty funny nonetheless (the issue is a little old--i.e. about 9/11):

6 step plan to dealing with a pacifist:

1) go to a peace rally and find one of the leaders (usually a hemp shirted college kid with rich parents).
2) ask him why we should not retaliate against the terrorists that attacked our country, as well as against those who supported them.
3) wait till he's half way through explaining that all violence is wrong and that by retalitaing we'd only be causing more evil bloodshed, and then bitchslap him across the face.
4) when he gets up to hit you back, put op your hands in a peaceful manner and tell him that hitting you would be wrong because it would cause more violence--which is always evil.
5) after he starts pontificating about why he will not stoop to that level, slap him again. harder this time.
6) repeat steps three through six until he realizes that there are times that you must strike back to protect yourself. you'll have done a good thing.

take it easy
ryan

[jee t]

the bible got problems in all types of places.
to this day, I dont understand why this religion owns so many people.