Weight loss for BJJ

[Mako]

Ober,

Well put. We don't disagree at all. The point I was making was that he most definitely needed to continue weight training. That if he lost fat and lean muscle both he wouldn't be happy (asthetically) with the outcome. And that with significant fat loss AND retained muscle (or increase) he would be much happier. I just used John Lewis as an example. (And I also agree, with your bodyfat comment regarding different races.. most people don't want to hear or mention it, for fear of sounding like Jimmy the Greek) You are also 100% correct about subcutaneous fat being the defining (no pun intended) factor in how striated and "ripped" a person looks. To think that the muscle itself caused this is to basically ascribe to spot reduction. So basically, I totally agree with what you said, but don't have NEARLY enough background to speak to it at your level! Then again, maybe we should just exploit all of the misinformation and stereotypes and make an informercial!

[Bau13]

If youre feeling too "tight" after weight training...maybe its because you aren't stretching enough...weight lifting should not make a person stiff and unflexable...it should actually make you MORE flexable if done properly..try stretching more during and after your workouts..ask a trainer what stretches to do for whatever body part and you shouldn't feel so "tight" afterwards.

Also...try taking some amino acids BCAA's if you are worried about feeling sore...they help you to recover(well they help me anyways)faster.

about the low weight high reps thing..yeah I forgot that you were doing a ton of cardio! So I'd do heavy weights low reps to build some muscle and gain strength ...I remember the only reason why some guys get so BIG it's cos they dont do nearly enough cardio and their muscles get big but the layers of fat over them are still there PLUS their diet probably sucks too...

Think about it..by adding weight training to your plan ...you would've lost weight,(fat) gained some nice lean mass AND you'd be stronger too!

remember...WEIGHT IS ONLY A NUMBER...its your fat percentage you gotta worry about...you could drop that 40 pounds and still look "soft"

[Oberleutnant]

Re: Weights

Originally posted by GuardMaster
Most people here suggested that I keep the weight training. The thing is I'm trying to increase my flexibility, and I find weights tighten me up.

Also I prefer perfecting a guard position -- this is why i train BJJ. For this position to be effective the body's greatest hinderence is guess what-- yep itself. GRAVITY counts against you with every move.

I need to keep my weight at what I consider a healthy amount for 5'7"... Thats to get it to 145. 185 is simply too fat. I don't care if I may have a great percentage of muscle. Overweight is overweight.

I'm interested in maximizing two areas. Cardio and flexibility. I'd like the body of a gymnast, acrobatic, agile, flexible. One can have a guard from hell with these qualities. Imagine performing armbars, "climbing" against gravity, with legs like ARMS.. Skinny legs mean one thing... greater force per square inch. And that means strong triangle chokes.

I'm no so concerned about pumping iron. I'd rather pump technique...

GuardMaster

Dear Roleta Jr: If you were performing adequate stretching in addition to exercising properly, flexibility wouldn't be a problem. I think your negative experience with weights limiting flexibility is derived from two things: #1-The myth that weights will always limit flexibility (the fitness industry is filled with more garbage & misinformation than any other IMO) and it was a psychological placebo effect you had, and # 2 you weren't training properly in that you weren't performing movements inthe full range as you should, without sacrificing joint ingegrity. There are many examples to illustrate weights do not impair flexibility. Dorian Yates can perform full splits both ways. Royler weight trains, in addition to a slew of other top notch BJJ artists. Flexibility is primarily dictated by neural inhibition; not tendon/muscle plasticity as so commonly percieved by the misinformed. In most cases, provided the trainee employs proper protocols, resistance training will not impose negative effect on this characteristic, and often will actually DECREASE neural inhibition and increase flexibility.

You said "For this position to be effective the body's greatest hinderence is guess what-- yep itself. GRAVITY counts against you with every move. " I'm having a difficult time agreeing here. Gravity helps IMO; it is a component to the friction to prevents you from sliding all over the place, the additional pull to sink in that armbar or sweep and drive the opponent to the ground. Case in point; do you honestly believe a guy like Royler or Howard Stern (if he were adept at this technique; I used him and his physique for illustrative purposes) would have an easier time pulling off an armbar from the guard on Couture than Enson Inoue? Do you really think a person would have a better guard if he were literally as light as a feather and his opponent could lift and slam him at will tirelessly? How effective of a guard do you think Roleta would have in the weighlessness of space if NASA flew him up in a space shuttle and perform a demo sans gravity?

You said: "I need to keep my weight at what I consider a healthy amount for 5'7"... Thats to get it to 145. 185 is simply too fat. I don't care if I may have a great percentage of muscle. Overweight is overweight. "

The 'ideal' weight for someone is very case specific, and is different for everyone. Just because Royler weighs 150 at 5'8 doesnt mean everyone that is 5'8 should weigh 150 for optimal performance. It's overly simplistic and flawed thinking. Doesn't account for individual attributes and genetic dispositions, as well as technical inclinations.

You seemed to not be concerned with losing muscle mass, because it will contribute to weight loss, and in your opinion weight is the biggest deciding factor. I'd have to disagree with that belief. To put this into perspective, take Auschwitz as an example. Do you believe Auschwitz victims had the ideal physique for optimal guard performance? Do you believe that had Helio spent time at Auschwitz, he would have had a better guard? (this is taking things to extremes, but it makes my point more clearly visible)

Technique is making the most efficient use of energy to achieve a desired task. Technique however will not provide the force necessary to execute the technique. IE a corpse with all the technique in the world would never win a match (well maybe in Royce's mind, it could, because it would never tap!).

You then said "I'd like the body of a gymnast, acrobatic, agile, flexible. " Kinda self contradictory here. You want the body of a gymnast, but refuse to weight train and infact seek to lose muscle mass. The activities gymnasts perform are a form of resistance training

I think you hold the common misconception that strength increases equate to size increases, which again is not necessarily true. Strength levels are primarily dictated by neuromuscular efficiency; the ability of your nervous system to recruit your muscle fibers in the most efficient manner, and to recruit as many of those fibers as it can. Increased neural efficiency does not affect size or weight, and does not elicit any hypertrophy. The myofibrils, the actual contractile proteins that provide movement energy however, will atrophy without adequate stimulation and will reduce strength potential.

Lastly... if you disagree with all this, that's fine. Suit th'self I tried.





[Edited by Oberleutnant on 11-02-2000 at 01:28 PM]

[GuardMaster]

On Weights

People keep saying that I shouldn't stop the weights. Well I don't recall saying I STARTED the weights..

I think for overall body composition weights has its advanatges, as well as for performance in MOST sports.

But I can't see how weights will help me out in BJJ. Note.. I'm not saying that in NHB strength isn't a factor. If you're a bag of water and get hit buy a full powered kick you're on your way to losing. But let's skick to the subject BJJ.

I haven't weight trained for about 6 months. I used to a long time ago... I did find a few factors I couldn't ignore during my experience: I grew tight. Flexibility at most could be maintained through additional stretching, as the weights would build up the pumps in my muscles and keep them tight. I also found the more weights and strength I'd gain the worse my cardio would suffer. They're two opposites strength, and endurance.

My favorite submissions are armbars. Even an average women possesses enough leg strength to overpower and then break a stronger mans arms (once he fully straightens it).

Strong, tense muscles are TELEGRAPHING muscles. Ever fight a strong person in BJJ? Sure he may win but chances are you KNEW what he was gonna catch you with. The students who rely on just technique and endurance tend to only telegraph the movement when its fully on.

BJJ relies heavily on good technique using the whole body as a lever. In almost all cases the whole body has sufficient strength to overpower a single arm.

So my own experience has lead me to believe that weight training is best keep for sports where strength is one of the most important factors. Some may argue that stronger muscles would make for faster movements (from the guard). This may be true. But I think that speed comes from repetition of skill not just strength. Loose flexible soft movements can produce speed... tension is a brake.

My own experience over the last few weeks (now that i've started a cardio program instead) has lead me to greater gains in stamina and flexibility. I've stuck to cycling and stretching. And guess what? My results have improved from workout to workout... unlike when I weight trained.

My own two cents....

Hoping to master the guard over the next 10 years of practicing solely the guard position.

[Oberleutnant]

I won't try any further to convince you otherwise. I'll just point out a few misconceptions:

Re: "Flexibility at most could be maintained through additional stretching, as the weights would build up the pumps in my muscles and keep them tight. "

The 'pump' is only temporary and subsides within an hour after training.

Re: "STrength and endurance are opposites" -Again, not so. Another common misconception...

there are a few more but I don't see the point in picking them out and explaining why, you've made up your mind that lighter= better and it will benefit you the most. In this case, I have a new recommendation for you: Go on a severely calorie restricted ketogenic diet, and your weight should plummet. Maintain this diet until you are a few lbs below your ideal weight, then start consuming more carbohydrates without increasing caloric intake. Water weight should increase with the accumulation of glycogen, and your thyroid will eventually slow down due to the calorie restriction. Either do this, or the Auschwitz diet. it's very simple; maintain an active lifestyle and limit your caloric intake to one 600 calorie meal a week. Good luck!

(this is totally unrelated... but I'm at a loss to come up with any reasons to focus on the guard alone and no other position. That's like wanting to learn how to steer the wheel of the car without learning how to shift and brake, signal, accelerate etc. I don't see any benefit of it applicable to sport, or reality combat. Maybe if you are an attractive female that walks dark alleys in which you are prone to being raped it would be a little more practical than if you were a guy, but even if you are a woman I still think you are hindering yourself. Remember rapists can also bend you over and literally "tap dat azz" )

[wheez]

Guardmaster, you weren't trolling were you?

It all the sudden occurs to me that a guy striving for a target weight of 140, dropping all strength training so he focus on fighting exclusively from his back, has a very "unique" concept.

If you aren't trolling, I wonder if you aren't trying to fight your genetics. Which you can give up on right now if you're doing that.

If you've got Matt Furey's body type instead of John Lewis', double up on the weight training. Turn ourself into a stout, steely little ball. You'll be a much more formidable fighter.

I'm using my memory now for body types...

Endomorphs...stout, prone to fat
Mesomorphs...athletic, ideal
Ectomorphs...lean, fat won't stick

Which describes you? I'm halfway between endo and meso but, like I said earlier, calorie counting has got me down to 175. (3 pounds lighter than the earlier post)

Editing this in as an afterthought as another pitch for the sanity of simple calorie counting. The earlier post said 178, this post mentions 175. My first post also mentions 215 a "few" months ago. I was able to figure out exactly when I started dieting by talking to a friend today. I've only been dieting since Sept 1. Two months and about a week to lose 40 pounds with no drugs, no lack of energy for workouts, no muscle loss. Anybody can do it.



[Edited by wheez on 11-04-2000 at 08:10 PM]

[Bau13]

right on wheez...

[thekuntawman]

i am very interested in this topic, but it is very confusing to me. can somebody please explain the best way to lose 10-20 pounds using the diet?

one of my old students told me about the three weeks no rice or vegetable only beans and meat thing, but i dont remember much about it. can you explain how that works?

i would like to use this information for some of my students and i dont want to sound stupid when i describe it, so i will try it on my wife first. please give me only information that is proven please.

also, please explain in very simple words please.

[FitnessRubber]

I've been a very moderate and conservative steroid user in the past, and yes I did everything I posted except DNP (It was a half-ass humor attempt) and for me it did worked great.

After all we all are not chess players, we do an extreme sport, sometimes we must use extreme methods.

Just so long as we are aware and cautious when we do them, sure...