Brass Knuckles

[Siegfried]

Bri Thai whether you believe statistics or not the crime is much lower in the United States than in anywhere in Europe or Australia. I don't know if its because guns are legal in the US or not, but it is. You people should really stop stating facts about a country you know little about.

I agree with you view on gun banning Kingston. Even if guns were banned criminals would still have them and the lawbiding citizen would not. But in my opinion the gun makes it easyer for the lazy person. The gun has to be the laziest weapon ever made.

Also, in the American Rifleman magazine, which I'm sure not of you look at, there are always at least fifty intstances in which people have defended their life, family, friends or property against others who threaten it by using deadly force with a gun. Using a gun is still a very effective way of self defence. Most of the time you wouldn't even have to even fire it. You can't just point you fist and scare away a scumbag, but you can sure point a gun and make them piss in their pants. My dad was a police officer and he never had to shoot anybody, yet the gun was the main weapon of defence.

Strict rules should be used on gun ownership, but not so strict that it becomes almost impossible for a lawbiding citizen to own one when a criminal can just find a way to bipass all the regulations.

[Siegfried]

Of course Bri Thai I don't expect you to admit there is lower crime in America than in England. That would either mean that our police are more effective(maybe because they carry guns?) or our people are more civilized, either way it doesn't matter to me just as long as the police do their job. I also think that police should get payed more, I mean a school teacher gets payed more than a police officer in America, yet a teacher rarely every risks his or her life. I know you can't have people becoming cops for the money but damn, they really should get payed more. How is the pay in the UK Bri Thai?

Dammit here I go again, getting into another political debate on a martial arts forum. I think from now on I'm going to try to avoid that. I mean next we'll start debating religion, (my religion is the best!, no your religion's fake!, blah blah blahhh)

[MrPoopy]

Segfried, do British cops not carry guns?

[ryanhall]

I ought to leave this to Bri Thai, but British Bobbies do not carry guns. I believe that only the more specialized police units have them.

Seigfried,

That would either mean that our police are more effective(maybe because they carry guns?) or our people are more civilized, either way it doesn't matter to me just as long as the police do their job

Don't you think it is a little shortsighted to say that American LEOs are more effective than their British counterparts as a whole? Some places have more crime than others, some cops are better than others. It's unfair to generalize. Do you think that Manchester has a higher crime rate than Los Angeles or Compton (not including damage caused by soccer hooligans)? I would be surprised if it does.

Bri Thai whether you believe statistics or not the crime is much lower in the United States than in anywhere in Europe or Australia

I do not doubt you, but it would be nice if you showed some evidence to support your statement. A link, perhaps.

[Siegfried]

I didn't mean to say that our police are better. I just said that this is what it might imply if Bri Thai agreed with my little fact on American crime compared to the UK's. I'm sure both police forces are about equally effective.

Sorry, I don't know how to make a link.

[Kingston]

Originally posted by Siegfried
(my religion is the best!, no your religion's fake!, blah blah blahhh)

lol, This is what i would call a Siegfried classic moment. Even though you were joking, i think in that statement, you provided more facts, and was more logicaly sound then anything else you have ever posted

lol i like how you came to only two conclusions "americas police are more effective, or america is more civilized" LOL!

i hope you realize that doesn't make any sence, if not, stop cleaning your gun collection and do some school work!!

[jonhutton]

response to your comment that teachers make more money

Got this off a website on MSN comparing the salaries off professionals

Profession Average annual salary
teacher $43,000
assistant professor $45,000
police officer $46,000
accountant $53,000
department store buyer $58,000
architect $60,000
computer systems analyst $71,000
engineer $75,000
attorney $83,000
full professor $84,000
doctor $120,000
so there you go


Jon

[MrPoopy]

I can't believe cops and teachers cry about thier pay! 40k+ is nothing to bitch about! Me and my wife don't make that much together!!!

[MrPoopy]

Are there any American cops on this board? What's the usual requirements to be a cop?

[Siegfried]

What area of the United States are these statistics about jonhutton? Because my dad wanted to become a cop again but said he couldn't because the pay is so low. Where I live cops do currently get payed less than teachers.

[Cain]

please..

the idiot stating that US has low crimerates.. please go get a life and experience what life is _outside_ the farm? you know, there is cities in US.. you know, those large areas with a lot of houses and not very many green areas.. you have heard of this concept...?

and guns.. no ordinary human beings need to go to their everyday work with a gun in their pocket.. or in a holster. If you hunt or use it at the range, well, lock the pistol in at the range and lock the rifle up at home. The most retarded people i can think of is those "i need to carry a gun, to defend myself!!" If you are getting robbed by a criminal with a gun, chances are that before you have come halfway to drawing your gun, you have 4-5 shots at their way to your body... not that i think that this way of natural selection is sweet, it sure gets rid of a lot of idiots, but still, I like to be gentle, so I'm telling you anyway!

[Guest]

The vast majority of British Police Officers (not including Northern Ireland, where they have the Protestant and Catholic Terrorist activity to deal with) do NOT carry guns. We have specialsed officers who work in pairs, called "Armed Response Teams". But their use is very strictly controlled.

When I "pounded the beat" back in '86 I had a little piece of wood (called a Truncheon). That was it, and you'd probably break it if you hit anyone with it. Nowadays most officers have body armour and some kind of side handled baton. Many have a CS Gas spray too.

But the reason we still do not have guns is that gun crime is so relatively rare still over here. We do have it, but much of that is Gang on Gang shooting, where normal members of the public are not involved.

The perception of most of the people over here is that crime is rife in American cities compared to our own.

PS - I loved that post about "come off the farm". Many of the people I have spoken to from the states do seem to be outdoor hunting types, who probably don't really know what it is like to live in a big city anyway.

On this issue, like so many, people pick and choose which statistic they quote, and ignore the ones that don't ft the side of the argument that they are on.

[Hulk]

if guns and nuclear weapons turns illegal all over the world and nobody are to possess it... who would need a gun to defend themselves or to attack? unfortunately it wont happen, lol. i dont think we need a gun to defend ourselves, there are other ways, guns are for cowards :P

[Hulk]

Originally posted by Siegfried
My point is just that weapons themselves shouldn't be banned from law biding citizens because its not the weapons themselves who commit the crimes. The criminals will just find a way to get any weapon they want while the lawbiding citizen cannot. An example of this is Australia where guns were banned and crime is still very high, much higher in the US where guns are legal. This is because criminals have the guns and lawbiding citizens do not have them to defend themselves. The government expects them to rely on the authorities for nearly all protection, but in reality it doesn't work that way my friends. Of course you may not be able to understand this Big Johnson, being from the People's Republic of California and all.

what do you know about the crime here in australia? A guy opened fire at a university a few months back before christmas... and killed 2, injuried a few others. why? if i was there with a gun, would i be able to defend myself? no, i'd be scaring more ppl, lol. i never needed to walk around with a gun here in australia, nor does my friends or family.

guns are made to kill, ppl who holds a gun will kill even when they use it to defend themselves. cos if a person attacks instead of peeing his pant when he sees his victim holding a gun, lol, how does holding a gun defend a person? PULL THE TRIGGER!! shoot his leg, he starts lapping towards you.... then hes about a meter away from you... sh*T!!! one last shoot to kill him so he'll stop. there you go, this person with the gun just defended himself.

the person with the gun had many chances to run away, to avoid killing, if he decides to run away, whats the need for a gun? run with a gun? lol come on, nobody needs a gun unless they wanna kill somebody quick.

[D.R.]

Originally posted by Sharp Phil
The UK is remarkably hostile to self-defense and all manner of weapons. I would strongly recommend against obtaining these. The sad fact is that for a resident of the UK, martial arts and self-defense might as well be illegal.

http://donrearic.com/tomyfriendsintheunitedkingdom.html

Which led to this childish outburst:

Originally posted by Bri Thai

Not true. For the millionth time we can (and do) defend ourseles, and those occasional "cases" quoted are nothing but half truths and lies.

For the millionth time, my hyperbolic friend? "Half truths and lies?" Indeed, like the BP Executive in the 80s who dared to use a sword cane...or the American Lady who was visiting there who was charged with an offensive weapon because of a simple pocketknife she used to fight back against a thug in your "safe" country? There are many more instances, don't have to cite them all and that is not the point of me registering here, this is:

And the last place to look for an honest and balanced view is Don Rearic's site. All you have to do there to get the most ridiculous spite and hatred is imply that you slightly disagree....... If people so quick to choose conflict want guns, that is the best advert yet to ban them.

You speak of "half truths and lies" as you lie through your maladjusted, British teeth. There is no place to "disagree" on my website for it is not a forum, so your pathetic little smear campaign won't go unanswered here. I ignored you the last time someone informed me that you were crying about our little disagreement. A disagreement, I might joyfully add, where another British Police Officer considered you to be a tool, either a wannabe tyrant or someone bucking for a lift up to the higher political callings of your job. In other words, Supervisor or Administrator.

The website where you get the hatred and spite, if you are a moron, is a forum that I moderate at and yes indeed I did ban you for being an obnoxious and thickheaded person.

But, don't speak of lies while you lie through your teeth when someone links to my site or I shall answer you, little man with a piece of tin.

I would advise you not to carry these brass knuckles in public. If you do you are breaking the law and could well be prosecuted.

What Dear Brian is not telling you is what he stated over at another forum, if you carry anything and you defend yourself with it, you will be subject to arrest and then you will be placed in the same residence with people you were defending yourself from! Lovely.

I asked Brian if someone carried something so simple as a Kubotan and used it in legitimate Self-defense, would they be arrested for an "offensive weapon." He answered in the affirmative.

I posed a simple question to him, if someone were on the ground and the boot was being applied to them and they drew a common pocketknife and they were able to own it and stuck it in one of the attacker's legs, would that person saving their own life be subject to arrest for an "offensive weapon?" Brian answered in the affirmative.

The truth of the matter is, British has a long and proud history. They are not a bad people. But there are people there, as is a sad fact of every country, people that do not trust their neighbors and Brian is one of them. Judge for yourself.

But I won't let you slam me and my website. What have you ever created on an online medium Brian? Something positive? You're just another Destroyer online that has to run to every forum they can and cry about everything. I would have never chased you to this place. Someone mentioned this thread and I registered because I am tired of you doing this.

I am always amused when people say how low the crime rate is in the USA. Only the pro gun lobby ever say it, along with a "and it's all because we can own guns" point.

What on Earth are you talking about Brian?

Well I don't think crime is all that low in the states anyway. Gun ownership or not. I don't have (or believe in) statistics.

No, you only believe in statistics from YOUR Government, for it would never lie. You have this "problem" with lies and telling the truth, it would appear to the casual observer that the truth only emanates from you and your Government.

How droll.

The vast majority of British Police Officers (not including Northern Ireland, where they have the Protestant and Catholic Terrorist activity to deal with) do NOT carry guns. We have specialsed officers who work in pairs, called "Armed Response Teams". But their use is very strictly controlled.

Yes, yes, yes, we spoke of one such unit over in the other forum before you were banned. One such unit shot a man carrying a table leg because someone else did not know the difference between an Irish and a Scottish accent. Pure paranoia.

But the reason we still do not have guns is that gun crime is so relatively rare still over here. We do have it, but much of that is Gang on Gang shooting, where normal members of the public are not involved.

I would say that most of America's murders are the same thing. Which leaves us down to population and I am betting that like Canada, if you broke the population to murder ratio down, you would see that Britain is pretty damned violent. But I guess the facts don't mean anything to you. You embrace the statistics that you wish to and casually disregard those that disagree with your control freak world view.

The perception of most of the people over here is that crime is rife in American cities compared to our own.

Wah-awah-a-wah-wah-wah...

On this issue, like so many, people pick and choose which statistic they quote, and ignore the ones that don't ft the side of the argument that they are on.

Human nature, isn't it Brian.

Here is a statistical fact for you my friend. Others may heed this as the number one piece of advice for defending yourself in Britain.

If you should find yourself having the snot beaten out of you and you are fortunate enough to grab onto ANYTHING with which you use to save your life. Immediately leave the scene of the incident or you will be subject to the injustice of being imprisoned with the same sorts of people that you were defending yourself to begin with. That is the sort of "Civilization" that Brian stands for, upholds and supports.

Do not let him take this into only a "gun" argument, he has done this before, if you use ANYTHING to save your life in a fight and he catches you, you will be arrested.

Everything else is just diversion, smoke and mirrors from him.

Ask him, "Is there such a thing as a 'Defensive Weapon' in Britain or is everything considered an 'Offensive Weapon?'"

Ask him if you are lucky enough to save your life by jacking one of multiple attackers with a TOOL, if you will be charged with having/using an "Offensive Weapon."

When he lies, I'll quote him.