Why I think Tyson is the best fighter in the world

[Davidc316]

Sorry for hogging my own thread, but I just want to say something for Belly.

Belly- I have read and thought about what you've said. However, I think the flaw in your line of thought is that you seem to assume that having a large selection of "moves" at your disposal makes you a better fighter.

A recent quote from you is as follows:

"Do they (boxers) know about underhook/overhook? Double underhook? double overhook? both hands around the kneck thai clinching? Do they know the footwork to controll the neck? Takedowns from the clinch? Probably not."

Personally, I don't believe that knowing many fancy moves makes you a better fighter (thought it may come in handy if your goal in life is to be awarded a black belt!). On the contrary, I have reason to believe that studying too many moves makes a person a weaker fighter. This position is in line with what Bruce Lee taught and what many of the JKD guys believe.

[BellyOfTheBeast]

Im not talking about bruce lee, fancy moves, many moves or JKD. You have this idea about mma that no one trains, or that everyone else is flashy karate people. Watch some recent UFC matches that have gone the distance and you tell me they arent tough enough to handle tyson. How is the basics of clinching fancy? If you call clinching fancy you have no idea what your talking about. there isnt anything fancy about it just basics of close range/grappling fighting. Clinch range is pretty common in street fighting and the things you can do from that range. Takedowns, sweeps, chokes from that position arent fancy either. Most people know that and dont take a whole lot of skill to learn but they are very effective. Im not talking about karate kid here. I just dont think tyson has the skill to handle other fighters who train harder constantly and are more rounded and experienced with fighting in all ranges, and also can take way more hits then he can and thats all.

[Davidc316]

The list of moves that you quoted earlier did NOT contain any reference to "basic clinching" or generalised close range grappling. Let's remind ourselves of your list once more...

"underhook/overhook? Double underhook? double overhook? both hands around the kneck thai clinching? Do they know the footwork to controll the neck? Takedowns from the clinch?"

Now some of those moves I admit to not knowing what they are.

But whether or not these moves are what you or I would call "fancy" or "basic" is missing the point. What I am simply saying is that knowing more moves does NOT make you a good fighter. I would be very surprized if other people in this forum didn't agree with that proposition.

And as for your advice about watching UFC fights...

-if funny you mention that because about five minutes before reading your post I was watching a video of some UFC fights! I feel like I've entered the twilight zone or something! Hee hee!

Anyway, to wrap up Belly... I think you and I have reached the end of the road in this particular thread. I think there's not much left to do but to agree to disagree. I have said pretty much everything that I can think of saying and I'm pretty sure that neither you or I will be able to convince the other one to change sides.

I look forward to talking with you in a future debate. Stay cool!

With respect,

David

[BlackMaskX]

If attitude is as big a factor as people say it is, then Tyson's got it. While Tyson is a big guy with knockout power and a amazing ability to take damage, I think that what makes Tyson so dangerous is his mental instability. Even if he had no training, he would still be a monster. His boxing skills just make him all the more dangerous.

But, I think that the claims that Tyson could take the UFC guys are dubious. The people in the UFC may not be as crazy as Tyson, but they compete in a sport with fewer rules than boxing, and they train several different facets of fighting.

[BellyOfTheBeast]

yeah it was nice talking to a brick wall too.

[Davidc316]

Belly- so far, I have observed at least two fundamental diffrences between you and I.

One difference is that I take on board what other people say, then respond. In my last two threads, for example, I have even quoted you word for word then offered feedback. This is hardly the reaction you'd expect from a brick wall!

The second difference is that, unlike you, I refuse to resort to personal insults.

-David

[Great Sage]

Originally posted by BlackMaskX
But, I think that the claims that Tyson could take the UFC guys are dubious. The people in the UFC may not be as crazy as Tyson, but they compete in a sport with fewer rules than boxing, and they train several different facets of fighting.

My partners and I spar with HARDLY ANY RULES at all... Does that make us better fighters than UFC participants? I think not. The rules for each sport are specific to that sport and so that point is moot.

Furthermore, just training in different facets don't automatically make one a better fighter. A person can train in as many martial arts as possible and still get KOed by a veteran Thai Boxer.

[Davidc316]

I agree!

[BellyOfTheBeast]

when you learn what street fighting is get back to me okay because its obvious in your posts you don't. Thats where the wall part comes in.

[Davidc316]

I live and was brought up in Glasgow- arguably one of the most deprived and wretched cities in Europe!

When you live in an environment which is entrenched in poverty, drugs and crime, trust me, you eventually learn one or two things about street fighting.

[akja]

Originally posted by Davidc316
I live and was brought up in Glasgow- arguably one of the most deprived and wretched cities in Europe!

When you live in an environment which is entrenched in poverty, drugs and crime, trust me, you eventually learn one or two things about street fighting.

But you quote to much caca like about Bruce and JKD which you Know nothing about and you think Mike is invincible. Mike has been in street fights, its lasted more than 5 seconds and I don't recall him knocking anybody out either! Mike is always in trouble, but that dosen't make him the greatest.

You didn't even know that it was Holifields ear that got bit off, you stated some guys ear got bit off.

Really reading your posts I wonder if you do know how to fight!

[Davidc316]

Of course I knew it was Holyfield's ear. Don't be silly! That was the biggest boxing match since the Rumble in the Jungle.

You seem to be making a full time career out of moaning at me these days!

Listen, I'm not pretending to be a great macho fighter, nor an infinite source of martial arts wisdom like you clearly are.

What you are doing is bordering on harassment. At least Rhu was man enough to realise that this endless bickering is silly and pointless.

But you're obviously a different story.

[akja]

I was being honest. Not harassment in the least. That is my opinion based on what I've read. Your only point that is valid here is that Mike has the killer instinct. Simple. We all know that. But theres always somebody badder around the corner.

[Davidc316]

After all I've written on this thread my ONLY valid point has been that Mike Tyson has killer instinct??????????

To be honest, I don't like to focus on negative people and I am no longer willing to waste my time trying to have a civil, cool headed discussion with someone who is on a mission to hit me with irrational hostility at every opportunity.

Good luck to you. I'm sure you'll have a great life!

[akja]

I re-read the whole thread. Tyson has been knocked out in the ring and the streetfights he's had in the street didn't add up to anything. His body guards always jump in to "clean up!"

With that said, there is no doubt in my mind that I would not want to get hit by tyson. But as soon as tysons attack is effecticively countered, he loses his head. Some think that makes him better.

It actually makes him worse. When you are out of control, you are wide open. There is always someone badder right around the corner and if there was "a baddest man on the planet," it would't be Tyson. He is one dimensional. It is just not enough.

A hardcore Vale Tudo fighter would make an example of him!!