Has anyone used aikido in real life situations?

[ryanhall]

Ueshiba's very publicized spiritual awakening (where he realized aikido was love) happened to him just after he sparred a kendo guy for like 10 minutes. He was unarmed and dodged all of the kendo guy's strikes. I've read that story in a dozen different places so it might have a grain of truth to it.

If it is true (and it may be), then the kendo guy simply sucks. Nobody can miss for ten minutes without it being a set-up. Period. O'sensei was a good aiki-jutsu practitioner before he got into all that spiritual stuff, but he was not Neo from The Matrix. I don't need kendo training to hit someone with a stick, doesn't matter who they are.

THis is what I did against my bigger brother when he tried to get mean with me. I shoved him all over the room and into things until he gave up. He was such a punk back then. Anyway, if I had hit him, he'd have never let me forget about it.

This is an excellent example of when Aikido might be appropriate when a greater use of force is not. Controlling a family member is a lot more appropriate than hitting one with a chinjab and stomping their knee. However, you must keep the situation in perspective. It was your brother, not a violent criminal (punk or no punk). A certain level of instinctive holding back goes on in that kind of situation. You could push your brother around without having him try to go vampire style on your jugular, the same way that a beat cop might be able to hold onto a teenage gang member without the kid trying to cold cock him. Controlling can work in situations where someone will allow you to get a hold of them, maintain it, and do something without trying to knock your head off. On the other hand, Aikido would not serve you that well against a mean and capable attacker who was trying to harm you in earnest. Everything is situational.

In all seriousness, those myths do martial arts such harm. They attract dumb morons who then propogate the myths. Then these idiots get the shit kicked out of them, and ordinary people think that all martial arts are crap.

It's sad what some people will believe. Martial arts DO get a bad rap as a result of that nonsense. On no less than three occasions have I had this guy who practices Shaolin Long Fist and Dim Mak threaten me with a death pressure point strike. It takes a lot of self-control not to whack him for it, too.

[terry]

To address the original question in this thread: Has anybody used Aikido in a fight?

My answer: Nope. The only Aikido I have got is imbedded within Cacoy's stick barrage footwork, and I'm usually at the receiving end of that. I did, however, use some pretty non-violent stuff from Bukti Negara to break up a fight between two people (w/ 5 bystander/egger-on'ers). I was surprised it came out at all, but there it was: puter kepalla, biset luar and a bent elbow arm lock.

The way I think of it was this: I was able to employ what the police would refer to as Level I defensive tactics to separate the combatants and discontinue the fight without having to go to Level II or III. (Having a voice like a marine corp drill seargent and 100 lbs of muscle on the largest guy also helped discourage things from going further.

Bottom line: Level I is fine, but you need to have a lot of power in reserve. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

[Toudiyama]

Originally posted by Bri Thai
See if you can do it against my big brother. I'll piss him off a bit first by telling him you humped his wife, and then give him a knife.

Or does it only work when you're playing?

now you are purposely not getting the point
it being that there are situations where you can use aikido's principles
In my country the amount of force used against an attacker should be relational to the attack, you can not kick the shit out of some-one just grabs you
Overkill like in American Kenpo karate will land you in jail here
Short story what happened here in my country: junky robs a supermarket, tho young guys chase him and threathens them with a knife they overpower him and when the police arives and take thhe guy in custodi(spelling?) one of the boys hits the guy again, for that he was fined 750 euro (which our prince Bernard paid for him) on top of that the robber even tried to file a civil complaint and get 2000 euro from the boy or the supermarket his booty was less than 500(yeah right lets do a stupid robbery and let myself get kicked and sue for a lot of money, it's the new way of getting money)
So less damaging techniques are neccesary in my country
Hypotetical sistuation: because of a misunderstanding your neighbour is irate and grabs you with both hands, you know it's amisunderstanding and you do not want to damage him but do want to get his attention, I would say perfect for a wristlock or at least a use of the aiki principles

[Guest]

So, to clarify, Aikido fighting techniques work best on someone who isn't really fighting.

Did I get the point this time?

[Toudiyama]

Originally posted by Bri Thai
So, to clarify, Aikido fighting techniques work best on someone who isn't really fighting.

Did I get the point this time?

Almost works best against someone you don't really want to fight/hurt

Aikidoisn't really a fighting art more a controling art

[Guest]

And you said I missed the point?

"Ok bad guy! Don't try to rob me or I will control you! Unless, of course, you punch me in the face......."

[Toudiyama]

Originally posted by Bri Thai
And you said I missed the point?

"Ok bad guy! Don't try to rob me or I will control you! Unless, of course, you punch me in the face......."

funny but doesn't control mean bad guy tries to punch and aiki person steering it so it won't hit him


If you work in a mental institution, you just can not punch someone in the face just because they are violent(they are patients)
In such cases Aiki based techniques are better

You won't hear me say they wil work against the people you seem to meet but there are more real life situations than just those where you need to eliminate your opponent

Most Aikidoka are weekend warriors though which makes it hard to ever use it efficiently
5 years of training will be 500 to 1000 hours training and for some even as little as 250, I know of MT C class fighters who do that in half a year to a year
On top of that most Aikidoka do not practice sparring, Tomiki being the only style with matches where one attacks with a rubber knife to core and the other has to defend after which roles are reversed

Every art has it's shortcommings and Aikido has a lot but still there are situations where they do work

[Guest]

"funny but doesn't control mean bad guy tries to punch and aiki person steering it so it won't hit him"

You tell me. You drew the distinction between "control" and "fighting".

But we're going around in circles. Perhaps this is what is meant by Small Circle Jiu Jitsu?

But, a the end of the day, it "works" against people who aren't really causing a danger to you, and does "not work" against those who are. It isn't just people who I seem to meet, as you so eloquently put it. It is the people most likely to hurt you if you come across them.

But stick to the twisty wristy if you want to. It's a free country.

[Toudiyama]

Probably my english, I considered something a fight when both sides are exchanging offencive tecjniques, if one doesn't do anything and is kicked and punched do you call it a fight?
If one punches and kicks and the otherjust keeps evading the attacks because ge doesn't really want to engage in a fight, is that a fight?
How I understood it with my knowledge from english the first would be a beating the second aan attack, am I correct or is my brain starting to deteriorate

[Temujin]

wow

Wow, Bri, you must get up on the wrong side of the bed every damn day. Chill, dude.

[chris davis 200]

Bri!

You have never met an effective aiki person. Big deal, this is not down to the art but down to the people that you have met.

I HAVE USED AIKI TECHNIQUES AGAINST AGGRESIVE DETERMINED ATTACKERS IN THE STREET.

The internet has provided us all with the opportunity to watch the arts we haer about. Unfortunatley you rairly see the actual art in fighting mode. But a correographed demonstrations. Even with the fighting 'sports' some people put some much stock in.

whether you believe my experience or not is irrelevant to me, what is that i have my experiences and i KNOW what i know.

If you think that Aikido in a fight situation would look like these demos you see then you are just completely stupid!!! In reality people do not roll nicely out of the throws, the thrower does not hold back to allow the roll. the aggresor ends up with broken wrists, arms and a bloody head. This is the reality of Aikido in combat, not the reality of aikido demonstration.

This is a fighting art. as with every fighting art around - it has something to give.

cheers
Chris

[pseudoswitch]

Check out Sensei Steven Seagal in his younger days:

http://195.82.120.86/images/New%20Mpegs/closeclip.mpg

I do not practice aikido, but have always had an interest in it as an artform. Shihan Seagal's interpretation of aikido is perhaps the most effective i have seen.

Enjoy.

pseudo

[Guest]

Well, if Sensei Seagal does it, it must be good.......

Chris - can you tell me if Aikido has ever featured in any No Holds Barred event? I haven't seen it. Surely it must feature if it is as good as you say?

[Toudiyama]

Darn Segal does excecute the techniques more powerfull than Ueshiba's son (the other person I've seen a video of doing the multiple attacker thing)

Bri: who in his right mind would nowadays go in the ring in an NHB event knowing only one art, BJJ excluded because that is almost tailermade for these vents(Helio and Carlos were already competing in events like this loooong ago)

In budo the art of killing you see a Sumo school where the teacher lets the students attack and most are diverted into a roll
this in itself is aiki principle

We have to accept that we won't make a believer out of Bri

[ryanhall]

Aikido MIGHT work if only it was trained realistically. Since it's not, it won't. If boxers point sparred, they would suck too. Having you attacker hand you his arm or wrist is the antithesis of realism. For God's sake, guys, this is ridiculous. Locks and restraining is not for balls to the wall survival. Period.